Quote from: Alathon;635899The right thing to do when people come at you with that shit is to come back with "so you quit watching movies after Irreversible was released, right?".  'course, the situation doesn't always allow for that, but I don't think trying to hedge people out of the hobby who generate controversy is an answer I'm willing to be part of.

Yeah, not that simple.  It's the same reason all Tea Party members are viewed as racists.  Or how all jocks are viewed as bullies.  Or how all "nerds" are viewed as physically ugly and weak with no social skills at all.

And even if it were easy, it shouldn't even be an issue.  Games like Maid and FATAL are for sick fucks that have no place in any group.

It's NOT OK to fantasize about raping people.  It's NOT OK to fantasize about sexploiting children.  EVER.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;635904It's NOT OK to fantasize about raping people.  

sure it is. Its not only perfectly okay, its psychologically healthy.


Its just not a group activity.

Oh, no, wait, it can be that too.

Anyways, yeah, I'm totally anti-rape and totally pro-rape fantasies. and no this isn't a dichotomy if you're sane.

OTOH, I keep that stuiff pretty far away from gaming, which is a social activity with my friends. I don't want to hear about my friends' sexual fantasies and they don't need to  be subjected to mine.


FATAL is just a stupid, peurile game, no reason to give it any weight beyond that. I don't want to play it because I'm an adult, not because I think it will warp the minds of the young into evil rapists.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;635904Yeah, not that simple.  It's the same reason all Tea Party members are viewed as racists.  Or how all jocks are viewed as bullies.  Or how all "nerds" are viewed as physically ugly and weak with no social skills at all.

And even if it were easy, it shouldn't even be an issue.  Games like Maid and FATAL are for sick fucks that have no place in any group.

It's NOT OK to fantasize about raping people.  It's NOT OK to fantasize about sexploiting children.  EVER.

I really don't care what people do in the privacy of their minds, or their bedrooms, or their dining rooms, nor should I.  If they want to fantasize about or pretend to do fucked up shit, fine.  And I gotta say, I don't see how there's any other way to be about it that's reasonable.  That thoughtcrime shit has no place in human society.

As for avoiding getting tarred with their brush, I haven't found it to be that big a problem.  I say what sort of games I play or run in, say what we do, and people are generally pretty cool with that.  "I'm not with them" is a fine defense when it comes to a big-tent categories, you just gotta be straight about what you are into, and trust in your reputation as a trustworthy fellow.  I don't think I've ever had a real world problem with anyone on account of Hentacle Bento or whatever the fuck porno game is the new hawtness.

I believe that people have very different ideas of what is acceptable, or not.

For me, the line is adult age, mutual consent, and privacy.


If two adults want to dress up as mr and mrs potato head, wear leather fetish gear, and lick whipped cream off each other, in private...Good for them.

Who am I to tell an adult how to behave, in private, with other concsenting adults?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;635901Even if you take that example, out, it's still fucking disgusting because the game still comes down to essentially "Take an adult and role-play out scenarios where children are sexploited."  The whole thing is just full of wonderful scenarios involving children and involving sex.  Perversion traits?

You did notice, didn't you, that for a game which according to you "focuses on playing 9-15 year old girls", the majority of the player characters in those three session reports don't even look underage, and out of the three that do, only one is an actual human child? And that one is in the specific example which you cited, which was cleaned up afterwards, while none of the others are mistreated in any way? And even in the original version she is only humiliated, not "raped with a broomstick" as some posters around here like to claim, by one evil PC whose actions aren't exactly viewed favourably by the others?

Quote from: Sacrosanct;635901The level of apologism is fucked up.  And don't give me that shit about "Like 'em Young" meaning a 15 year old liking a 13 year old, or a 40 year old liking a 20 year old.  The game clearly puts it into a context of an adult liking a preteen.

The examples in the game include a single character, this same Rie, whose tastes seem to run that way. However, what the description for the Quality itself clearly states is that the player decides which age range "younger" means in this context. So yes, "a 40 year old liking a 20 year old" would fit every bit as well.

Not to mention that like the rest of the Perversion subchart, it's an option for players who agree to have a "darker" game. Otherwise, the same roll results in a regular Relationship instead.

Quote from: Alathon;635899The right thing to do when people come at you with that shit is to come back with "so you quit watching movies after Irreversible was released, right?".  'course, the situation doesn't always allow for that, but I don't think trying to hedge people out of the hobby who generate controversy is an answer I'm willing to be part of.

Thank you for demonstrating one of the geek social fallacies.

Quote from: Bill;635915I believe that people have very different ideas of what is acceptable, or not.

For me, the line is adult age, mutual consent, and privacy.


If two adults want to dress up as mr and mrs potato head, wear leather fetish gear, and lick whipped cream off each other, in private...Good for them.

Who am I to tell an adult how to behave, in private, with other concsenting adults?

You know, everything I have written has explicitly said the following - "What you do in private is none of my business, but it becomes my business when it is done in public and claims to represent my hobby."

So does it matter to you if Maid, the Sexploitation is played in public and publicly proclaimed to be representative of the hobby?

Quote from: The Yann Waters;635917The examples in the game

That is all that is needed to know. The distasteful crap is illustrated as examples of play in the game.

Quote from: jeff37923;635923So does it matter to you if Maid, the Sexploitation is played in public and publicly proclaimed to be representative of the hobby?

I don't think that will ever happen. Seriously, I dont thibnk anyone will get up and go "this game represents the RPG hobby". Not only is it stupid, its just not something any human being would actually say. I

Quote from: jeff37923;635924That is all that is needed to know. The distatseful crap is illustrated as examples of play in the game.

An example of how someone has played the game, more accurately. The "replays" are session records, not some perfectly polished guidelines for ideal gameplay.

Quote from: jeff37923;635921Thank you for demonstrating one of the geek social fallacies.

Is that the one where geeks claim they're so terrible at life that they can't explain something as straightforward as a D&D campaign to their friends and co-workers?

Quote from: TristramEvans;635926I don't think that will ever happen. Seriously, I dont thibnk anyone will get up and go "this game represents the RPG hobby". Not only is it stupid, its just not something any human being would actually say. I

So is this dissembling sidestep a "yes" or a "no" answer?

Quote from: Alathon;635928Is that the one where geeks claim they're so terrible at life that they can't explain something as straightforward as a D&D campaign to their friends and co-workers?

No, it is the one where they say that any geek is a good geek and must be welcomed into the social group, no matter if they like wink-wink paedophilia.

Quote from: jeff37923;635930No, it is the one where they say that any geek is a good geek and must be welcomed into the social group, no matter if they like wink-wink paedophilia.

The appropriate response to fellow participants in a hobby you find sketchy or of questionable taste, is to not inflict them on yourself and hang out with people you like.  And maybe to have a word with the sketches when you're stuck with them (Conventions?) about what is and isn't acceptable in public spaces if they're not comporting themselves public-wise.  Gaming isn't like your church or family, you're not stuck interacting with everyone who calls themselves a gamer.

If you've got evidence of wrongdoing, by all means go to the police.  If they're just skeevy, treat them like they're skeevy.

Quote from: Alathon;635899The right thing to do when people come at you with that shit is to come back with "so you quit watching movies after Irreversible was released, right?".  'course, the situation doesn't always allow for that, but I don't think trying to hedge people out of the hobby who generate controversy is an answer I'm willing to be part of.

Quote from: Alathon;635932The appropriate response to fellow participants in a hobby you find sketchy or of questionable taste, is to not inflict them on yourself and hang out with people you like.  And maybe to have a word with the sketches when you're stuck with them (Conventions?) about what is and isn't acceptable in public spaces if they're not comporting themselves public-wise.  Gaming isn't like your church or family, you're not stuck interacting with everyone who calls themselves a gamer.

If you've got evidence of wrongdoing, by all means go to the police.  If they're just skeevy, treat them like they're skeevy.

So, which is it? Because I cannot see treating someone who is being a creeper as being a creeper if you are unwilling to hedge them out of the hobby. Face it, we are talking about publicly shunning someone who has open public games about paedophilia or something else equally revolting. It is not a subject you can be on the fence about.

And I am doing it to protect the public image of the hobby, which has been tarnished enough by lawncrappers.