I like evocative art, and much of that includes 'cheesecake'.  I won't buy a book because of the cover art, but I won't refuse to purchase it either.  But I figure even if I have a book featuring scantily clad men or women (or both) that's unlikely to have much of a negative impact on the hobby because I'm not a creepy neckbeard.  

And while a game like MAID might seem to encourage seducing underage ghosts (if I understand correctly), those same actions are possible in D&D.  The nature of an RPG is that people can use it any way they want.  

Yes, it might make the hobby look bad when the 'worst elements' are seen.  But if you're not a member of the 'worst elements' it should have minimal impact on your recruiting.  You say, 'my games aren't like that'.  And if you can describe your games in a compelling manner, you have a new convert.  Bully for you.  

But seriously, if the fact that people play other games in a relatively small 'niche hobby' is making things harder for you, that's probably more of a reflection on you or the way you're recruiting than on those games.  The fact that some people are into BDSM doesn't impact my enjoyment of 'mainstream' sex.  The fact that people enjoy 'deviant' RPG games doesn't impact my enjoyment of 'mainstream' RPGs.  It's all about finding a partner/partners that are into the same thing you are.

This hobby's "worst elements" aren't teenage guys who like porn, I'll say that much.

Quote from: jeff37923;635667It is 2013, I still have to tell people that D&D does not involve Satanism.

Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

The rest of the world got over the Satanic Panic along time ago. It's about time gamers did. The self-loathing is sickening.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;635714Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

The rest of the world got over the Satanic Panic along time ago. It's about time gamers did. The self-loathing is sickening.

I grew up in a Roman Catholic family.  Dude, it's still there.  Maybe they aren't as up in arms about it because they've got the (trademark) evil gays, liberals, and Muslims to worry about, but that attitude is still there.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;635714Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

Oh yeah, I believe even Alice Cooper is a born again christian these days, how about that eh, and still on the road fair play to him.

Doesn't make this any less of a troll thread mind you.

Quote from: mcbobbo;635396If you didn't care about what people were doing at their tables, you wouldn't be here sharing what you do at yours.

People come here to (verbally over the internet) kick each other in the face, or at least that is a large part of why people come here.

Sex is easily exploited and abused and if people have the opportunity they will always do just that, in the same way people will always steal an unattended Kindle. Going out of your way to avoid being exploited and ripped off is not odd behavior, and the people who want to exploit and abuse others will have to get over their disappointment in not being able to (verbally over the internet) kick people in the face.

Quote from: GRIM;635669That had nothing to do with the games themselves and everything to do with an external panic.

That is the most fucking retarded defense I have heard yet. The result was the same, doesn't matter if it was internal or external.

Quote from: GRIM;635669Bully for you. Other people do and what they do really has no discernible effect on you and your table. If someone doesn't like Hostel it doesn't mean they give up on all cinema forever.

I'm talking about the public play of tabletop RPGs. Why the fuck do you keep talking about cinema? They are two different mediums of entertainment that are experienced differently.

How about this as a test for you. Take Poison'd, or Maid, or FATAL and run it in a public venue - like a convention or FLGS. Then get back to me about what the reactions from people observing were. Did those games make the observers want to try RPGs or did they get discouraged by the subject matter?

Quote from: GRIM;635669I can't think of a nice way to phrase it. To me (and others) it seems a really peculiar POV to hold.

Bully for you.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;635714Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

The rest of the world got over the Satanic Panic along time ago. It's about time gamers did. The self-loathing is sickening.

Try working in a game store for a year. It'll be an eye-opener for you.

Then again, maybe not, as I seem to remember that you advocated poking at people's PTSD in game in order to enhance the experience of the game. A perfectly reasonable position, I might add.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;635714Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

The rest of the world got over the Satanic Panic along time ago. It's about time gamers did. The self-loathing is sickening.

Visit Texas sometime. Ignorance is alive and well.

Quote from: jeff37923;635725How about this as a test for you. Take Poison'd, or Maid, or FATAL and run it in a public venue - like a convention or FLGS. Then get back to me about what the reactions from people observing were. Did those games make the observers want to try RPGs or did they get discouraged by the subject matter?

From personal experience, I can say that at least playing Maid in public doesn't cause any particular problems. Obviously you might want to make sure in advance that everyone is on the same page about acceptable behaviour, especially with unfamiliar players, but then the same applies pretty much to any other RPG demonstration as well.

Or New Mexico, for some seriously fucked up religious folk.

Quote from: Doctor Jest;635714Unless said people live in the Ozarks or the remote areas of the deep South, I very much doubt this is true. The Satanic Panic was nearly 30 years ago, and D&D was just one thing that got targeted along side a whole bunch of things. No reasonable person believes this anymore. Even blatantly Satanic imagery displaying Heavy Metal music doesn't really even bear the stigma anymore, much less D&D.

The rest of the world got over the Satanic Panic along time ago. It's about time gamers did. The self-loathing is sickening.

Sorry, but I still see this today.  All of those people who were freaked out about the Satanic Panic had kids, and those kids grew up and continued the panic for the next generation.  Just like those jocks who hated on the nerds grew up, had kids, and their kids are now tormenting the next generation of nerds.

Quote from: The Yann Waters;635733From personal experience, I can say that at least playing Maid in public doesn't cause any particular problems. Obviously you might want to make sure in advance that everyone is on the same page about acceptable behaviour, especially with unfamiliar players, but then the same applies pretty much to any other RPG demonstration as well.

Where did you play it in public?  At an FLGS, or at a place like a library?

Quote from: The Yann Waters;635733From personal experience, I can say that at least playing Maid in public doesn't cause any particular problems. Obviously you might want to make sure in advance that everyone is on the same page about acceptable behaviour, especially with unfamiliar players, but then the same applies pretty much to any other RPG demonstration as well.

I expected nothing less from our resident Maid apologist.

Quote from: The Yann Waters;635733From personal experience, I can say that at least playing Maid in public doesn't cause any particular problems. Obviously you might want to make sure in advance that everyone is on the same page about acceptable behaviour, especially with unfamiliar players, but then the same applies pretty much to any other RPG demonstration as well.

Um, no.  A million times no.  With "any other RPG demonstration", you don't have to a discussion about "Are you OK with seducing children in RPGs?"

And before you say, "It's a ghost", it should be point out that it's still a child, and it's the primary way to beat the challenge.  And "any other RPG demonstration" doesn't typically have "pedophile" (oh, I'm sorry, I mean "Likes 'em Young" :rolleyes: as a random attribute. And "any other RPG demonstration" doesn't typically have an example scenario in the book describing rape (tying up and undressing the victim while a male employer jokes about tearing up the stockings too.  And "any other RPG demonstration" doesn't have an example of gameplay being crawling into bed with a 14 year old girl, taking off clothes, and pressing yourself up against them.

Don't even try to compare a game like Maid with "any other RPG".

Quite frankly, it is more than just a little alarming that so many people in our hobby (at least the ones on the forums), are totally cool with child exploitation or sexualization, or even think it's awesome, because "Hey, Manga!  I'm not creepy!  It's Japanese!"  

Sorry, but you as a western white dude who's only exposure to Japanese culture is buying a Super Lemon at Anzen doesn't give you the right to use "Japanese Culture" as some sort of excuse to engage in some really creepy behavior.