Also, would a 50-year old elf that looked like a human 10-year old be all precocious and smart-ass like kids on tv-shows?

RPGPundit

Maybe.  Remember too that we tend to draw out childhood.  Back in the day twelve year olds were occasionally expected to knife each-other in war*, get married (and no, not just girls), and occasionally run kingdoms.

So a more adult looking 50 year old elf that had the mentality of a 12 year old is actually better off in that sort of society than the humans who also have 12 year old bodies to go with their minds.






*Egil's saga sprang to mind there... For the curious they think they've found good ole' Egil's skull recently.

Quote from: Spike;572959Maybe.  Remember too that we tend to draw out childhood.  Back in the day twelve year olds were occasionally expected to knife each-other in war*, get married (and no, not just girls), and occasionally run kingdoms.

That's actually one of the things GRRM gets right in ASoIaF. Jon Snow is what, 14? when he joins the Night's Watch; two years later he's the Lord Fucking Commander. [strike]Mary Sue[/strike] Daenerys Targaryen is 16.

Probably. I stopped paying attention to ages because the cognitive dissonance of my cultural expectations was starting to jar badly.

Works well that way.

Quote from: mcbobbo;572093Do both species have 24 hour days? Same needs to eat/sleep/replace or repair clothing, etc?

If not, if say an elven day is four times longer, they eat a quarter as much, etc, then no, it wouldn't make a huge difference.

But if longevity is the only substitute change (as is the case in a lot of fantasy), then it matters quite a lot. For example, an unwanted pregnancy now saddles you with a century's worth of support. Heck, you're changing diapers and spoon feeding for as much as sixteen years.

Changes the value of life itself.

Put it this way - imagine prices went up 400%. Would it make a difference in your behavior?

According to the D&D books, Elves only need 4 hours of sleep, so they have a longer day than humans.

While traveling, elves need the same amount of food as other Medium-sized creatures, such as humans and dwarves.

Clothing repair probably depends on material and use, just like humans.

What kind of wierd pregnancy are you thinking of that takes a century?!?
Even assuming that pregnancy is extended out similar to lifespans, 9 months extend to 3-4 years for gestation.

Cost (not price) may increase by 400%, but so does your ability to pay, so there's no net change.

Or to put this another way, do you feel human parents are saddled with children unfairly compared to cats and dogs, who rarely exceed 20 years of age?

Quote from: The Butcher;572981That's actually one of the things GRRM gets right in ASoIaF. Jon Snow is what, 14? when he joins the Night's Watch.

I wouldn't say its all that accurate; its totally plausible in 15th century england (supposedly the inspiration for Game of Thrones) for a 14 year old bastard to end up joining an army or a mercenary company even.  Its completely implausible for said bastard to end up being its commander at the age of 16.

If there is some truth that children above the age of 8 were thought of as "little adults" (and there is SOME truth to that, though its pretty exaggerated), its also true that they were thought of as extremely innocent, stupid little adults who weren't deserving of being trusted with any personal responsibilities.
Its true that a 12 year old could be an apprentice blacksmith, but he'd also be stuck as an apprentice until he was about 19, and that was just one stage of his training.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;573629I wouldn't say its all that accurate; its totally plausible in 15th century england (supposedly the inspiration for Game of Thrones) for a 14 year old bastard to end up joining an army or a mercenary company even.  Its completely implausible for said bastard to end up being its commander at the age of 16.

If however he was instead a peasant girl in 15th Century France...

Quote from: RPGPundit;573629I wouldn't say its all that accurate; its totally plausible in 15th century england (supposedly the inspiration for Game of Thrones) for a 14 year old bastard to end up joining an army or a mercenary company even.  Its completely implausible for said bastard to end up being its commander at the age of 16.

If there is some truth that children above the age of 8 were thought of as "little adults" (and there is SOME truth to that, though its pretty exaggerated), its also true that they were thought of as extremely innocent, stupid little adults who weren't deserving of being trusted with any personal responsibilities.
Its true that a 12 year old could be an apprentice blacksmith, but he'd also be stuck as an apprentice until he was about 19, and that was just one stage of his training.

RPGPundit

Lord Nelson commanded a ship at 12. Had to threaten to shoot a prisoner who rescinded his parole over the subject of age, as I recall.  Yes, yes, because people died.

That wasn't even as far back in terms of... ah... historiosity?... as GoT would be.

Not, mind you, that I'm exactly making the case for Jon Snow's command as proof of my point.  I'll stick with Egil's saga and knifing little boys in the woods while the adults fought in the fields, thanks.

Quote from: gleichman;573633If however he was instead a peasant girl in 15th Century France...

Hey, that was actually a score.

JG

Quote from: Spike;573696Lord Nelson commanded a ship at 12. Had to threaten to shoot a prisoner who rescinded his parole over the subject of age, as I recall.  Yes, yes, because people died.

http://www.royalnavalmuseum.org/info_sheets_horatio_nelson.htm

It looks like he was a joining midshipman at age 12, serving on his uncle's ship.

The hell? I remember reading about SOMEBODY... too many specific historical details to be entirely my own creation.

Great. Now I'm not going to be able to sleep tonight as I fucking study the entire fucking history of british naval warfare, napoleonic era.

Quote from: Novastar;573070What kind of wierd pregnancy are you thinking of that takes a century?!?
Even assuming that pregnancy is extended out similar to lifespans, 9 months extend to 3-4 years for gestation.

I'm not sure if you're a parent, but the obligation extends well beyond birth, let me assure you.

Quote from: Novastar;573070Cost (not price) may increase by 400%, but so does your ability to pay, so there's no net change.

No, I'm talking about ability to pay in level of effort.  Lets say takes (just a WAG here) 100,000 man-hours to provide food and materials for a single human child to become a productive member of society.  In a world where it takes 400,000 for an elf, that elf's parents are going to hold more value over that child than the human parents would.  Four times as much.  In this way, the very elven notion of life and death should extend to every extent of their lives.  Remember, everyone relies on their own point of view, and simply borrows everyone else's.  So, for example those elves wouldn't go to war, or ever risk a life, I don't think.  Not unless the stakes were really, really, REALLY high.

If elves operated the way I see them - gestation and maturity along roughly human lines until adulthood - then you can have elves that behave a lot more like typical fantasy elves would.

Quote from: Novastar;573070Or to put this another way, do you feel human parents are saddled with children unfairly compared to cats and dogs, who rarely exceed 20 years of age?

Yes, in a whole host of ways.  Animals typically invest far fewer of their resources in gestation and maybe only a tenth as much in rearing their offspring.  If they were sentient, I'd suggest that they value life on a much lower scale than humans would.

Back to a fantasy point of view, I would suggest that orcs should breed rapidly and mature quickly.  It would justify their 'throw bodies at it'/'rape and pillage' culture.

Quote from: gleichman;573633If however he was instead a peasant girl in 15th Century France...

A peasant girl with magic powers on a mission from god sent to a nation that was getting its ass absolutely kicked, sure.

That's a pretty particular circumstance, I'd say.  Pretty different from suggesting "14 year old boys were commanders of major military orders on such a regular basis no one batted an eye at it".

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;574482A peasant girl with magic powers on a mission from god sent to a nation that was getting its ass absolutely kicked, sure.

That's a pretty particular circumstance, I'd say.  Pretty different from suggesting "14 year old boys were commanders of major military orders on such a regular basis no one batted an eye at it".

RPGPundit

though Jon Snow does have magical powers and a magical wolf companion and is in a Watch that has had its arse handed to it on a plate against a previously only imagined foe and Joan of Arc didn't actually have any actual magical powers she just heard voices ... Oh and SoFaI is a work of fiction ......

Oh and Edward the Black Prince was a commander in the Flanders campaign at 15 and at Crecy when he was 16. But you are a historain you knew that .

Quote from: RPGPundit;574482A peasant girl with magic powers on a mission from god sent to a nation that was getting its ass absolutely kicked, sure.

That would be God, not god.

Also.. I could be wrong here, but I think little Jehanne would likely take exception at your claim of her having 'magic powers'. But if you wish to side with the English and English loyalists of the time, that's your affair.

Outside that, I didn't think we were placing limits on what talents or supporters a candidate brought to the table. Next time maybe you should make yourself more clear.


Edit: Need to remove "She would call it nothing more than the favor of God", she would not have claimed that. I don't know what I was thinking.