IRL, age of maturity doesn't correlate directly with longevity. It's more related to body mass and neural complexity. So most creatures that are human size I assume that age of maturity is more comparable to humans than D&D assumes.

I made a little model in an excel spreadsheet that lets me re-define racial ages to make thing less strictly related to longevity. Instead of making ages of different categories directly proportional to longevity, I use a fractional power depending on the age category.

For example, assuming elves have a longevity of 6 times humans, I assign "adult" age a multiplier of longevity^.5. So if 15 is "adult" age for humans of the era, then an elf adult would be 15*6^.5, or 37.

My elves age exactly like humans. It's their homeland that's weird.

In the elven homeland, no one ever ages, and wounds heal quickly. However, it's like the fairy lands in folklore: each day is the same, fighting and feasting, sex and intrigue. Nothing is ever different, no one ever learns anything, no children are ever born. That's why elves sometimes leave their homelands for short periods: to learn new things, to have a child, to reach maturity. They hate the outer world, because they're more likely to die there, but it's a grim necessity.

The game effect is that elves have to record their birth-year in addition to their age. They may pick up background skills from various ancient eras, to reflect previous excursions.

So: does it take elven toddlers a couple decades to be potty-trained? Not if they're raised outside the elven homeland. Inside the elven homeland, a toddler can *never* be potty-trained. For extra giggles, you could let elves learn their own language in the homeland, so you wind up with these fully fluent toddlers who crap everywhere uncontrollably and talk about an empire they saw rise and fall centuries ago.

Quote from: RPGPundit;571497But the question is whether a 50 year old elf looks like a 10-year old human, or a teenage human, or a 20something human already?

RPGPundit

In High Valor? No. A 50 year old elf looks, more like its namesake (probably not a lot at that age, they're immortal in the aging sense, they just change as they "age.")  50 years old might be a slightly feline natured elf, if their namesake is Leihaur or Lynx. Otherwise they'd look human 20ish. At 500 though the differences are extreme. She probably has tufted feline ears, and a catlike face but still be humanoid. At 1000 she may have digitgrade feline legs, and paw like hands and feet.

Of course if she's known great joys or sorrows, that may be even further along.  At 1400 with some great sorrow, she may be a Lynx with human-like eyes and speech.

Quote from: Spike;571432Elf   175 years   263 years   350 years   +4d% years

That is middle age, old age and venerable age from the 3.5 SRD.

That's how Elves Age. Dead by 400.

You seem to have missed the first post...

Quote from: talysman;571525My elves age exactly like humans. It's their homeland that's weird.

In the elven homeland, no one ever ages, and wounds heal quickly. However, it's like the fairy lands in folklore: each day is the same, fighting and feasting, sex and intrigue. Nothing is ever different, no one ever learns anything, no children are ever born. That's why elves sometimes leave their homelands for short periods: to learn new things, to have a child, to reach maturity. They hate the outer world, because they're more likely to die there, but it's a grim necessity.

The game effect is that elves have to record their birth-year in addition to their age. They may pick up background skills from various ancient eras, to reflect previous excursions.

So: does it take elven toddlers a couple decades to be potty-trained? Not if they're raised outside the elven homeland. Inside the elven homeland, a toddler can *never* be potty-trained. For extra giggles, you could let elves learn their own language in the homeland, so you wind up with these fully fluent toddlers who crap everywhere uncontrollably and talk about an empire they saw rise and fall centuries ago.

Why would the homeland preclude cognitive development?  Does this mean you can't remember anything either?  Because if not, where do you draw the line between learning something and remembering how to do it?

Quote from: mcbobbo;571557Why would the homeland preclude cognitive development?  Does this mean you can't remember anything either?  Because if not, where do you draw the line between learning something and remembering how to do it?

Because it's magic.

Because remembering something doesn't cause a permanent physical change.

Because I'm basing my version of Elf-Land on folklore and fairy tales, not on science-fantasy.

My assumption is that the elves, back when they were an "ordinary" tribe that practiced magic, tried to cast a grand spell that would give them an unchanging homeland, and unfortunately, their wish was granted.

I've written some more on this for a blog-post tomorrow, and made some changes:
(1) It's not just stasis; every physical change is reset the next day.
(2) Wounds received in Elf-Land heal completely overnight.
(3) Wounds received outside Elf-Land can't heal in Elf-Land.
(4) Purely intellectual pursuits can be learned as well; an elf-baby can learn to speak, read, do calculus, compose poetry, study history, but can't learn to walk or control its bowels.
(5) Babies are thus farmed out as changelings so that they can grow physically and learn proper hygiene/locomotion.

I'm also adding some weirdness related to non-elves who stay in Elf-Land, but that's not relevant to this thread. Short answer: it's not good, either for the non-elf or the elves, so they don't let humans in except for short periods, in dire circumstances.

Quote from: mcbobbo;571551You seem to have missed the first post...

You seem to have missed my first post. However, I found a distinct lack of conversation in this thread, just people leaping up to spout random shit about elves and aging at random times before they sit back down so the next guy can pop up.

If my pointing out that D&D pretty much tells ya that Elves are just like all the other races, but this is how their age catagories break down (which is what that chart seems to say) then we can infer what a 50 year old elf looks like by seeing where in which age catagory they fall under. Thus I both answer the OP with hard rules and post provacatively, daring someone to discuss the merits of boring old elves that die at 400 years of age, having spent two hundred or so years as decrepit old men. Just like people, only longer.

Aren't I a wit?

Quote from: talysman;571563Because it's magic.

Because remembering something doesn't cause a permanent physical change.

Because I'm basing my version of Elf-Land on folklore and fairy tales, not on science-fantasy.

My assumption is that the elves, back when they were an "ordinary" tribe that practiced magic, tried to cast a grand spell that would give them an unchanging homeland, and unfortunately, their wish was granted.

I've written some more on this for a blog-post tomorrow, and made some changes:
(1) It's not just stasis; every physical change is reset the next day.
(2) Wounds received in Elf-Land heal completely overnight.
(3) Wounds received outside Elf-Land can't heal in Elf-Land.
(4) Purely intellectual pursuits can be learned as well; an elf-baby can learn to speak, read, do calculus, compose poetry, study history, but can't learn to walk or control its bowels.
(5) Babies are thus farmed out as changelings so that they can grow physically and learn proper hygiene/locomotion.

I'm also adding some weirdness related to non-elves who stay in Elf-Land, but that's not relevant to this thread. Short answer: it's not good, either for the non-elf or the elves, so they don't let humans in except for short periods, in dire circumstances.

That is a very folkloric take on it, to be sure.

RPGPundit

After rereading this thread I knew I should have went James Gillen's route, the whole question is an open invitation for punchlines.

You know like "VERRRY slowly" just for a start ......

Quote from: Spike;571577You seem to have missed my first post. However, I found a distinct lack of conversation in this thread, just people leaping up to spout random shit about elves and aging at random times before they sit back down so the next guy can pop up.

If my pointing out that D&D pretty much tells ya that Elves are just like all the other races, but this is how their age catagories break down (which is what that chart seems to say) then we can infer what a 50 year old elf looks like by seeing where in which age catagory they fall under. Thus I both answer the OP with hard rules and post provacatively, daring someone to discuss the merits of boring old elves that die at 400 years of age, having spent two hundred or so years as decrepit old men. Just like people, only longer.

Aren't I a wit?

I don't see how those benchmarks you provided address the question of the length of youth. Yes you can and probably should infer that everything progresses along a linear path, but nothing in biology actually works that way. You could follow this up with other questions, like gestational period. If everything in elven development is 'human times 4' then you're looking at a three year pregnancy. From an evolutionary point of view, it would be surprising to have any elves at all. Their infant mortality rate must be staggering. Also imagine the impact a three year gestational period and a 60 year adolescence would have on women's rights, sexuality, etc.

It's not a trivial question...

Actually, I address some of the cultural impacts of true elven immortality elsewhere.  One might assume that physical development precedes mental development in long lived races like Elves. Elven children are running and playing only a few years behind human children, but when human children are building real memories and learning the difference between self and not-self, elven children are... still undeveloped, though they may appear older. Enculturation probably takes a LOT longer than, say, learning to walk or talk.

Of course, in most fictive (vs gaming) setting, Elves don't generally have to worry about being eaten by bears, so massively attenuated periods of weakness are less of a liability for them.

Likewise, if elven biology is 'built' around 3 year pregnancies and true, pre-crawl infancy can last a year or more, they won't suffer from it the way human babies and mothers would.. though most settings ALSO postulate that elves have trouble conceiving, making the idea of a high mortality rate fitting.

I've always imagined (er... not really) elven pregnancies are less gravid than human pregancies. Smaller bellies, less (by ratio or percentage) weight gain, and thus are much easier. It just seems more elvish that way. So an elvish woman late in her third trimester looks like a human woman about midway through her second... at most.



There? Is that better?

Uh, if Elves live 5 times as long as humans, in their own homelands, would it really matter if it took 100 years for an elf child to develop, if it took 20 years for a human child too, as well?

It only really is affected if you have a lot of cross-race interaction. It would be a little odd for great-grandpa to pass away, who was born on the same day as your elven childhood friend, who by now you're physically older than...

Quote from: Novastar;572047Uh, if Elves live 5 times as long as humans, in their own homelands, would it really matter if it took 100 years for an elf child to develop, if it took 20 years for a human child too, as well?

It only really is affected if you have a lot of cross-race interaction. It would be a little odd for great-grandpa to pass away, who was born on the same day as your elven childhood friend, who by now you're physically older than...

Do both species have 24 hour days? Same needs to eat/sleep/replace or repair clothing, etc?

If not, if say an elven day is four times longer, they eat a quarter as much, etc, then no, it wouldn't make a huge difference.

But if longevity is the only substitute change (as is the case in a lot of fantasy), then it matters quite a lot. For example, an unwanted pregnancy now saddles you with a century's worth of support. Heck, you're changing diapers and spoon feeding for as much as sixteen years.

Changes the value of life itself.

Put it this way - imagine prices went up 400%. Would it make a difference in your behavior?

Also, would a 50-year old elf that looked like a human 10-year old be all precocious and smart-ass like kids on tv-shows?

RPGPundit

Maybe.  Remember too that we tend to draw out childhood.  Back in the day twelve year olds were occasionally expected to knife each-other in war*, get married (and no, not just girls), and occasionally run kingdoms.

So a more adult looking 50 year old elf that had the mentality of a 12 year old is actually better off in that sort of society than the humans who also have 12 year old bodies to go with their minds.






*Egil's saga sprang to mind there... For the curious they think they've found good ole' Egil's skull recently.