Quote from: jeff37923;564735The nation and history of Cheliax is pretty cool.

Here is the Pathfinder wiki entry, give it a read.

Cheliax is absolutely AWESOME.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;564731I just want to say "Chillaxian".

That is an awesome name for any game society.

I played a Magus from Cheliax in my brother's Pathfinder campaign. I couldn't get myself to ever pronounce the name as anything other than Chillax though.

(And yes, it is a pretty awesome area of Golarion)

Quote from: Bill;564739Cheliax is a great place to set a campaign!

If only it was not racist against people with actual devil blood in their ancestery.

See, that gives me a cool angle to work with.

Varisia was colonized by Cheliax for awhile, so there was immigration of Tieflings. When the Cheliaxian nobles retreated back to the homeland, they were left behind, and are now establishing their own townships on their own without the Cheliax overseers. They are creating their own culture and identity for themselves now, on a continent filled with ruins of the ancient Runelords. Makes for a great game setting.

Quote from: Spike;564744Five more minutes tells me Kyra the Cleric is a Keleshite.

For whatever THAT is worth.



Damnit! I swore I wasn't going to participate in this trainwreck!

So this means that BOTH the dark skinned people you tried to use as your counter example specifically AREN'T Mwangi. How surprising that jeff's counter examples aren't  really counter examples as they are both not Mwangi.

And no, jeff, I'm not "desperate" to find it racist. It already is. Its also "typical" racism. Games in general are typically racist and misogynistic so I see this kind of shit all the time. It doesn't bother me at all. I play Japanese origin games all the time and they don't try very hard to not be racist: Again, its all about associations that people make. The fact that you don't find the Mwangi entry racist and are forced to avoid bringing that entry up (or making an honest comparison to some of the other entries) as an issue just shows you're suffering from dissonance. Me? It doesn't matter. I don't use published Campaign settings when I game so its a non issue for me. However, that doesn't make the laughable defense people try to make of something so obvious unamusing.

Quote from: MGuy;564752So this means that BOTH the dark skinned people you tried to use as your counter example specifically AREN'T Mwangi. How surprising that jeff's counter examples aren't  really counter examples as they are both not Mwangi.

I thought this was about portrayal of African analogues, not about the Mwangi in particular. Seelah for instance is Gurandi ethnically, which is still... for lack of a better term... black. So how is her not being Mwangi disqualify her from the examination of the portrayal of black people in Pathfinder?

I dunno. Since THIS is the picture associated with the savage barbarians (you know: Illiterates), I'd have to say Golarian is racist against white people.

Quote from: MGuy;564752So this means that BOTH the dark skinned people you tried to use as your counter example specifically AREN'T Mwangi. How surprising that jeff's counter examples aren't  really counter examples as they are both not Mwangi.

:popcorn:


So why is the entry for the Mwangi racist?

For extra credit, tell my how that racism maps from a role-playing game setting to Real Life.

I have a proposal to take this somewhere that might not just devolve into yeah, is - no, isn't.

Is it even possible to have a setting with real world analogues that can't be perceived as racist?

How would you go about it?

Quote from: jeff37923;564759:popcorn:


So why is the entry for the Mwangi racist?

For extra credit, tell my how that racism maps from a role-playing game setting to Real Life.

I've already answered this in my posts. I'm forced to believe you're just jerkin' around at this point.

So how is one to integrate a culture into their RPG inspired from an existing historical African culture without being racist?

So far I've read that it's racist unless you include all cultures from Africa, which is impossible because no one wants their handbook to be 10,000 pages long.  

I've also heard that any depiction that is tribal in nature, regardless of historical accuracy and regardless if you depict similar "ethnic" representations differently (non-tribal), is racist.

So do you just say "screw it" and not include African culture into RPGs at all?  That seems awfully odd for someone to say they want equality for everyone and at the same time take a position where the end result is one where ethnic groups are being excluded.

Quote from: Sacrosanct;564763That seems awfully odd for someone to say they want equality for everyone and at the same time take a position where the end result is one where ethnic groups are being excluded.

Which is also, by default, racist.

Quote from: One Horse Town;564760I have a proposal to take this somewhere that might not just devolve into yeah, is - no, isn't.

Is it even possible to have a setting with real world analogues that can't be perceived as racist?

How would you go about it?

Ninja'd by OHT, and in a way that is a lot less winded than mine.

Quote from: One Horse Town;564760Is it even possible to have a setting with real world analogues that can't be perceived as racist?

How would you go about it?

I don't think you can.

There will always be retarded white knights out there who will scream that some part is offensive and racist so that they have something to feel righteous outrage about.

Do you remember when Star Trek: TNG first came out? I was living in California at the time and there were people screaming that the Klingons were created as a racial slur against militant blacks. This kind of bullshit exists because of that retarded white knight tendency being a part of human nature. Protesting against things which only exist in their twisted little minds.

Quote from: MGuy;564762I've already answered this in my posts. I'm forced to believe you're just jerkin' around at this point.

Actually, you haven't.  The discussion sort of went like this:

You: It is racist because black people are portrayed as primitives.
Others: Here are representation of black people that aren't primitives.
You: But they're not this particular group of black people


Well, WTF mate.  If you create a specific culture, that is inspired/based off of a specific historical culture, then yeah, there are going to be similarities.  That in no way means that the entire ethnic group that that particular culture shares is like that.

Quote from: MGuy;564762I've already answered this in my posts. I'm forced to believe you're just jerkin' around at this point.

All you have posted is "Ohmigod! Racist!" so far. You have not explained why the depiction of the Mwangi is racist in your mind.

I suspect that you do not know and have just been cribbing arguements from another forum to use here.