Generic fantasy is generally "racist" all the time. For every boook that states all sentient creatures of X race have a penchant for being violent, greedy, prideful, etc you are basically boiling down a group of imaginary people in general terms. This is edged by by making them essentially another species (goblins, orcs, elves, etc) so you can get by with that without causing too many issues. The thing you can't do without getting noticed is do the same to humans. That's why humans are the everyman. They are the generalists. Because we, as humans, know that we humans vary wildly even within the same cultural group such that generalizing our behaviour would be insulting. This is why Golaria is racist because not only does it do that thing I just mentioned but it does so with stereotypical analogues of real world stereotypes. My favorite is the Mwangi which are obvious primitive African stereotype. You got your regular joe African who's culture never got past clay houses in the savannah. You got your assimilated Africans who are absorbed into whatever culture they happen to be around. You got your distant Africans who reject their old "primitive" culture in an attempt to be more modern. You got your slaver Africans who worship evil gods and enslave and trade their own kind. All of them have real world, stereotypical analogues with them.

Yes, it's racist. Obviously so. However, some people might wave it away saying that all the cultures are boiled down to stereotypes. I'd say yes, that's a necessity and something that's likely to happen when writing a generic fantasy setting.But then I'd have to ask why use that particular stereotype for the African people? Why not have them be like the Taldians or Cheliaxians? Why are the black people stuck with the african stereotype? Because its lazy writing and those kinds of associations are easy.

Is it a big deal? No. Probably not. Most people won't even think about it twice because most people already make that association. People stereotyping other people is something that happens everyday. Whether or not you do it by race, culture, sexuality, gender, whatever. Because the people who wrote upp Golaria went the lazy route and just copypasted various real world stereotypical cultures then they are bound to have a few people notice and call them out on it. From there people do the "Racism" dance. You get your deniers, the people who don't care, the people who think talking about it makes it more racist, the apologists, the people who are legitimately offended, etc etc. But its all a bunch of hoopla that isn't going to amount to anything really.

Quote from: S'mon;564290In the UK you can't bring a Libel action in small claims court; I expect the USA is the same. Plus the USA has actual free speech protection which makes Libel claims very hard to win.

The U.S. free speech protection is kind of limited.  The Constitution stipulates government abridgement of speech, and while case law has gone and protected people against big corporations, it doesn't protect against false claims and/or indefensible claims.  A standard tactic of big corporations is to sue someone in court, then let that person's money for lawyers dry up and they have to settle or quit the case.

Quote from: S'mon;564290In the UK you can't bring a Libel action in small claims court; I expect the USA is the same. Plus the USA has actual free speech protection which makes Libel claims very hard to win.

Don't we here in the USA have some laws against defamation that don't necessarily invoke libel or slander?

Further, while I typically hate the law being wielded as a sledgehammer in such a matter, one doesn't necessarily need to win in court, as such, but a suit itself is quite often enough to effect change - either enough to scare the defendant into backing down, or those "out of court settlements" we hear about all the time.

I'd say there's more than enough "evidence" in the various threads to hammer at least a couple of folks to the wall, a'la a pattern of behavior that seems intended to do nothing but defame a particular entity or product.

Of course, the requisite "I'm not a lawyer" pertains here.

Quote from: MGuy;564292Generic fantasy is generally "racist" all the time. For every boook that states all sentient creatures of X race have a penchant for being violent, greedy, prideful, etc you are basically boiling down a group of imaginary people in general terms. This is edged by by making them essentially another species (goblins, orcs, elves, etc) so you can get by with that without causing too many issues. The thing you can't do without getting noticed is do the same to humans. That's why humans are the everyman. They are the generalists. Because we, as humans, know that we humans vary wildly even within the same cultural group such that generalizing our behaviour would be insulting. This is why Golaria is racist because not only does it do that thing I just mentioned but it does so with stereotypical analogues of real world stereotypes. My favorite is the Mwangi which are obvious primitive African stereotype. You got your regular joe African who's culture never got past clay houses in the savannah. You got your assimilated Africans who are absorbed into whatever culture they happen to be around. You got your distant Africans who reject their old "primitive" culture in an attempt to be more modern. You got your slaver Africans who worship evil gods and enslave and trade their own kind. All of them have real world, stereotypical analogues with them.

Yes, it's racist. Obviously so. However, some people might wave it away saying that all the cultures are boiled down to stereotypes. I'd say yes, that's a necessity and something that's likely to happen when writing a generic fantasy setting.But then I'd have to ask why use that particular stereotype for the African people? Why not have them be like the Taldians or Cheliaxians? Why are the black people stuck with the african stereotype? Because its lazy writing and those kinds of associations are easy.

Is it a big deal? No. Probably not. Most people won't even think about it twice because most people already make that association. People stereotyping other people is something that happens everyday. Whether or not you do it by race, culture, sexuality, gender, whatever. Because the people who wrote upp Golaria went the lazy route and just copypasted various real world stereotypical cultures then they are bound to have a few people notice and call them out on it. From there people do the "Racism" dance. You get your deniers, the people who don't care, the people who think talking about it makes it more racist, the apologists, the people who are legitimately offended, etc etc. But its all a bunch of hoopla that isn't going to amount to anything really.

Thank you for proving my point about using the most simplistic and inclusive definition of the term 'racist'.

Quote from: danskmacabre;564281It already does..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=paizo+racism&oq=paizo+racism&gs_l=igoogle.3...41.847.0.1241.6.6.0.0.0.0.207.635.3j2j1.6.0...0.0...1ac.NnyOAvLesxg

I did a search on "paizo racism" and it picked up that specific thread on rpg.net

6th search result down.

I hate it when I'm right like this.

Quote from: flyerfan1991;564295A standard tactic of big corporations is to sue someone in court, then let that person's money for lawyers dry up and they have to settle or quit the case.

It depends on what state you are in though because generally speaking its actually grounds for dismissal before the event ever actually happens.  And on top of that most people generally tend to get pissed off at SLAPP lawsuits.

Quote from: S'mon;564283Golarion has a big Egyptian-analogue nation, called Keb AIR. It's one of the most prominent bits of the Inner Sea World Guide. *sigh*

An Egyptian analog would probably span half the continent of Golarion.

Quote from: danskmacabre;564281It already does..
https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=paizo+racism&oq=paizo+racism&gs_l=igoogle.3...41.847.0.1241.6.6.0.0.0.0.207.635.3j2j1.6.0...0.0...1ac.NnyOAvLesxg

I did a search on "paizo racism" and it picked up that specific thread on rpg.net

6th search result down.

Why would a person be searching for "paizo racism" if they're looking for information about Paizo the company, or Pathfinder the RPG, or Golarion the game world?

I googled just "Golarion" and the thread did appear, on the 7th page of results.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564263unfortunately I don't see how you elimate the issue without limiting free speech.

There is no country on earth where you are free to libel or slander people, no matter how free the speech is, and for a very good reason. Its mad to object to cracking down on libel because it limits free speech.

Quote from: The Traveller;564324There is no country on earth where you are free to libel or slander people, no matter how free the speech is, and for a very good reason. Its mad to object to cracking down on libel because it limits free speech.

I am not objecting to cracking down on libel, I am objecting to people filing libel suits against posters on forums for expressing an opinion. If a poster states a blatant lie, that is one thing. But these are subjective opinions people are expressing. If someone on rpgnet wants to start a thread aobut our game Crime Network advancing racial stereotypes about italian americans, I would think its off the mark but I would never contemplate suing them. That is just going to have a chilling effect on conversations about games elsewhere. Again I am no lawyer and libel law is something I know very little about but it seems to me if people are getting sued for expressing opinions that isn't a good thing for free speech.

Quote from: CRKrueger;564285The awfulpurple goonsquad wants to fake outrage about Golarion, let them.  If they get to the point of organizing boycotts and crap, Paizo's big enough to not just knuckle under like Mongoose did, especially since the goonsquad is not their customerbase.

Did Mongoose "knuckle under" though?  Last time I looked they're still around.

Also, yes, I hope Paizo is laughing at the goons and the Big Throbbing Purple crowd.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;564331Also, yes, I hope Paizo is laughing at the goons and the Big Throbbing Purple crowd.

I am really sorry I have to tell you this, delver, but calling RPGNet "the Big Throbbing Purple" is offensive to the penis community.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564326Again I am no lawyer and libel law is something I know very little about but it seems to me if people are getting sued for expressing opinions that isn't a good thing for free speech.

This isn't libel.  This isn't even close to being libel.   The fact of the matter is that you'd effectively have to prove that there was bad faith involved or reckless disregard for the truth.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;564331Also, yes, I hope Paizo is laughing at the goons and the Big Throbbing Purple crowd.

Last time I checked a Paizo was having a mental breakdown over on RPG.net

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;564326I am not objecting to cracking down on libel, I am objecting to people filing libel suits against posters on forums for expressing an opinion.

Do you really believe that some of these "opinions", in particular Ettin's, aren't expressed with malice aforethought? Half the people over on rpgnet are too terrorised to speak out, and most of the other half just don't bother getting involved. I'd have no difficulty whatsoever twisting the balls off the few decriers, in the classical sense, before a judge.

Quote from: Melan;564333I am really sorry I have to tell you this, delver, but calling RPGNet "the Big Throbbing Purple" is offensive to the penis community.

"p-nis" is a trigger word you PATRIARCHAL HATEMONGER!

Quote from: technoextreme;564334Last time I checked a Paizo was having a mental breakdown over on RPG.net

aww.  They shouldn't.  It's just SA goons trolling for lulz/leftojustice.