While HM sounds like too rules - heavy game for me, the random Quirks & Flaws table sounds very, very interesting, and something I may steal.

Quote from: Aos;520404But that's what this thread is about...

Touche, and point taken!

Hey, that's mod talk!

Quote from: Rincewind1;520406While HM sounds like too rules - heavy game for me, the random Quirks & Flaws table sounds very, very interesting, and something I may steal.

Actually, HM is pretty modular. There are many parts that you can just ignore if you want, but you'd be surprised how much you start using after you get used to the system. Actually, the way combat flows you really aren't bogged down very much by the rules.

Quote from: One Horse Town;520409Hey, that's mod talk!

I just wanted to tell someone else they were off topic, just to see how it feels.
feelsgoodman.jpg

Quote from: Aos;520415I just wanted to tell someone else they were off topic, just to see how it feels.
feelsgoodman.jpg

You're touching yourself aren't you?

Somebody has to.

Quote from: greylond;520410Actually, HM is pretty modular. There are many parts that you can just ignore if you want, but you'd be surprised how much you start using after you get used to the system. Actually, the way combat flows you really aren't bogged down very much by the rules.

Aye to that.

I'm famous for showing up with 20  minute PC specials. Just roll up a guy on the flly because I spaced and forgot to do and the game is suddenly upon me.

But when I have the time I LURV using the full rules and letting the quirks and flaws, circumstances of birth tables and other parts of the process slowly bring a character to life.

There are quickstart rules and all sorts of options to cater to player tastes/style.

Most people who kneejerk are doing so at the full bore/full on Chargen rules. You can scale them down considerably it that's not your bag.

How easily can you do that, though, without either unbalancing the game, having some dependent-features that then have to further be edited out (like actions in the game that depend on which skills or quirks someone has), or creating a situation where a character is gimped?

You can make the "just don't use the parts you don't like" argument for any game, but only with certain games will that actually work.

In D&D 3e, for example, I could just not use skills and feats.  But then I'd have to edit, revise, or remove a SHITLOAD of rules that depend on Skills and Feats. Also, if I was the only player character not to have skills or feats, I'd be pretty fucking pathetic compared to the guys who spent 8 hours meticulously character-building their epic guys full of featskilly goodness.

The problem is, I HATE having to spend 8 hours "character-building my guy"; i hate having to fiddle with points like a fucking beancounter. So why would I want to choose a game that is point-buy over a game where you roll randomly and create a character in 10 minutes?

RPGPundit

Just popping in to note that, while I'm usually in the "fast pcgen" camp, for HackMaster what I WANT is crazy over-the-top-ness, in the chargen as well as in other areas (and it delivers).  HM pcgen is definitely a game in itself, in the vein of Traveller pcgen (but "turned up to 11").  Fans of lifepath-type systems will find something to enjoy, here.  

That said, at least in HM4, there's a TON to pick and choose from for DMs of any TSR edition, even if you don't go all-out Knights of the Dinner Table.  I find several HM rules slotting into my 1e AD&D game very nicely.

Yeah, as I said in my RPG.net review of Hackmaster Basic, I didn't like the fact that it didn't let you "min-max" as much as Hackmaster 4th Edition.  This is HACKMASTER.  Minmaxing is kind of the POINT.

JG

Quote from: RPGPundit;521242How easily can you do that, though, without either unbalancing the game, having some dependent-features that then have to further be edited out (like actions in the game that depend on which skills or quirks someone has), or creating a situation where a character is gimped?

Pretty easy.

QuoteThe problem is, I HATE having to spend 8 hours "character-building my guy"; i hate having to fiddle with points like a fucking beancounter. So why would I want to choose a game that is point-buy over a game where you roll randomly and create a character in 10 minutes?

RPGPundit

I can do a HM character in about 20 minutes. It really depends on how much into it you get. If you know the system and already know what you want I can see it getting done in 15. One trick that I picked up from Topher for H4 is that you prep a few character types then you'd like to play and then it is easy to roll up the character.

Quote from: James Gillen;521344Yeah, as I said in my RPG.net review of Hackmaster Basic, I didn't like the fact that it didn't let you "min-max" as much as Hackmaster 4th Edition.  This is HACKMASTER.  Minmaxing is kind of the POINT.

JG

HMb is a basic intro to HM, so yea it was cut down some. Just wait until you see the new HM PHB...

greylond- thanks for the thread.  I appreciate seeing the mechanics of character creation for HM.

Not a problem. We're in the middle of taking a couple of weeks break, once Hammer goes up a level I'll post what I do for going up a level...