This is a cross post from the Kenzer&Co forums. This is an example of character creation and later in the thread I'll post an example of him going up a level.
I'm making up a new character for our Wed night game with the HackCooks and I decided to start a thread detailing his creation and level advancement for example purposes. My Commentary/Thought process during creation will be in Italics
Character Made with PHB Beta ver 1.11
His name will be "Hammer." At least that's the name he goes by around humans.
Original Rolls:
Str: 14/04
Int: 8/95
Wis: 10/75
Dex: 13/80
Con: 9/45
Lks: 15/63
Cha: 16/66
Pretty good rolls. Probably the best character I've rolled so far. Definite Fighter material. Nice Lks/Cha, going to be a "Leader-type". Going to keep all stats in order of rolling them.
BPs= 90
Race Dwarf:
Rolls adjusted for race:
Str: 14/04
Int: 8/95
Wis: 10/75
Dex: 13/80
Con: 13/45
Lks: 13/63
Cha: 14/66
Spent 2 BPs to bring Int up to 9/05 and 5 BPs to bring Dex up to 14/05.
Str: 14/04
Int: 9/05
Wis: 10/75
Dex: 14/05
Con: 13/45
Lks: 13/63
Cha: 14/66
BPs= 83
Quirks/Flaws:
1st Q/F:
Rolled: 840
Slight Limp
+5BPs
I can take that. My vision for the character is a Front Line grunt, he's just going to be a little slow now.
2nd Q/F:
Rolled: 986
Trick Knee
+25 BPs(30-5BPs for being the second Q/F)s
Ouch! Going to be "Tricky" with this, but again I envision him being a Frontline "Shield Wall" type character. Let the other characters be the flankers or dancers. That's enough Q/Fs for me.
BPs=113
After Q/Fs and all other things that might affect stats and adjusting Cha for Lks, stats are:
Str: 14/04
Int: 8/95
Wis: 10/75
Dex: 13/80
Con: 13/45
Lks: 13/63
Cha: 15/66
BPs=113
+10 Bonus BPs for Cha skills
Class: Fighter -20BPs
93 BPs(+10 BPs for Cha skills)
Free Skills&Prof due to Race and Class:
Shield
Light Armor
Med Armor
Heavy Armor
Minimal Skill Weapons
Appraisal(Armor&Weaponry)
Mining
Language(Dwarf)
Laborer
Skills/Talents/Prof purchases(BP Costs):
Battle Axe: 1 BPs
Throwing Axe: 2 BPs
Maintenance: 5 BPs
Phalanx Fighting: 5 BPs
Etiquette/Manners(Dwarven): 3 BPs
Hiking/Road Marching: 4 BPs
Attack Bonus(Battle Axe): 5 BPs
Swiftblade (Battle Axe): 5 BPs
Parry Bonus(Battle Axe): 5 BPs
Damage Bonus(Battle Axe): 5 BPs
Battle Axe Spec(Attack+2): 15 BPs
Battle Axe Spec(Speed+1): 5 BPs
Battle Axe Spec(Parry+1): 5 BPs
Battle Axe Spec(Damage+1): 5 BPs
Language(Merchant): 2 BP
Language(Kalamaran): 2 BP
Language(Renariaan): 2 BP
History, Anct: 1 BP
Rope Use: 2 BPs
Swiming: 1 BP
Intimidation: 2 BPs
Observation: 8 BPs (2 purchases)
Current Affairs: 2 BPs
Cha BPs spent on:
Distraction: 1 BPs
Oration(3 purchases): 3 BPs
Persuasion: 3 BPs
Recruiting: 3 BPs
Basically, this is going to be a Fighter/Leader type with a few other skills. Swimming is something that I almost always take. Character sheet and background to follow.
Final character sheet when I started playing him:
Name: Hammer
Race: Dwarf
Class: Fighter
Q/Fs: Trick Knee, Slight Limp
Str: 14/04| Damage Mod= +2 | FoS=+5 | Lift=235 | Carry=19/39/77/116 | Drag=588
Int: 9/05 | Attack Mod= -1 |
Wis: 10/75| Init Mod= +2| Def Mod= 0| Save Mod=0
Dex: 14/05| Init Mod= 0 | Att Mod= +2| Def Mod= +2| Save Mod=+1
Con: 13/45| Save Mod= +1|
Lks: 13/63| Honor Mod= +1|
Cha: 15/66| Honor Mod= +2| Turn Mod= +5| Morale Mod= +3
Prof:
Shield
Lt Armor
Med Armor
Hvy Armor
Etiquette/Manners(Dwarven)
Laborer
Maintenance
Hiking/Road Marching
Phalanx Fighting
Minimal Skill Weapon(Club)
Battle Axe
Throwing Axe
Talents:
Attack Bonus(Battle Axe)
Parry Bonus(Battle Axe)
Swiftblad(Battle Axe)
Damage Bonus(Battle Axe)
Weapon Spec:
Battle Axe(Att) +2
Battle Axe(Def) +1
Battle Axe(Speed) -2
Battle Axe(Damage) +1
Skills:
Appraisal(Armor&Weaponry)19
Current Affairs: 31
Distraction: 28
History, Anct: 14
Intimidation: 19
Language(Dwarf): 67
Language(Merchant): 27
Language(Kalamaran): 9
Language(Renariaan): 11
Mining 21
Observation: 26
Oration: 31
Persuasion: 22
Recruiting: 24
Rope Use: 25
Swiming: 20
not listing Universal Skills
Money: 5sp, 6cp, 5tc (rolled 40sp)
Equipment:
Battle Axe 5sp| 3.5lbs
Sm Shield 15sp|
Leather Armor 2sp|
Belt, Leather .05sp(5tc)
Belt Pouch, Small .1sp(1cp)| 1lbs
Flask, metal 2sp| .25lbs
Belt Pouch, Large .3sp(3cp)| .5lbs
Spike, Iron(3) .1sp(1cp)| .5lbs(in L.Pouch)
Backpack 1.8sp(18cp)| 3.5lbs
Mess kit 1sp| 6lbs
Ax-Hammer .7sp(7cp)| 1lbs
Rope, Hemp 50ft .4sp(4cp)| 10lbs
Wool Blanket .2sp(2cp)| 3lbs
Torch(6) .1sp(1cp)| 5lbs
Tinderbox .1sp(1cp)| 1lbs
Trousers(wool) .3sp(3cp)
Tunic(wool) .2sp(2cp
Fish, Salted(3days) .15sp(15tc)| 9lbs
Preserves, Fruit(3days) .15sp(15tc)| 3lbs
Encumbrace: 47.25lbs
Encumbrace(without Backpack): 5.75
Background to follow...
Hammer's Background:
Hammer's family owned a small mine in Karasta, when Kalamar invaded, his father formed a milita company and joined the defending army and Hammer went along as the company runner. They valiantly fought the Kalamaran armies but in the end were routed along with the rest of the defending Dwarven armies. Hammer earned his nickname the first week on campaign when he was told to setup the tents and couldn't find his tent peg hammer. One of the veterans had hid it and the rest of veterans kept him busy looking for a hammer all night long. After that they always called the young one "Hammer" and he learned the dour Dwarves respect with hard work and paying attention to his military skills training. During the months of the long campaign his father put him through training to one day lead the company. Hammer finally got put on the battle line on when the milita company suffered grievous casuluaties and they were putting everyone on the front lines. During the retreat Hammer suffered two critical hits, one to his right knee from a Kalamaran crossbow and another critical to his right thigh muscle from a Hobgoblin sword. Ever since then he has had a permanment trick knee and slight limp on the same leg.
Hammer's family survived the retreat but their milita company was disbanded and they split to seek their own fortunes. Hammer has wandered the shores of Reanaaria for a few months now looking for work as a mercenary.
Alignment: NG
Basic way I'm playing him(So Far), he's a Merc except he won't do anything Evil. He doesn't have a problem working for anyone who isn't overtly Evil, i.e. Evil Priest or Humanoid types. Other than that, he'll work for whomever has the coin and he's willing to be loyal to the contract. He plays as fair as he can, although he'll dirty fight if pressed but he won't go right out and murder someone, unless they are a hopeless Evil, i.e. Goblins.
Now, he'll go up a level soon. So, an example of how I'm probably going to do it:
Advancing a Level gives any character 15BPs to spend.
I'll probably spend them like this:
Specialization:
Battle Axe(Damage) +2: 10 BPs(going from +1 to +2= 10 BPs)
Skills:
Spend the other 5 pts on skills, not sure at this point which ones...
Thanks for that I see how it all holds together.
NP, I'll have to remember to update this as I go up in level...
And anyone who has questions, please ask...
God I hate point buy.
I can just imagine how ridiculously long that would take a newbie to distribute points into, and not to mention that all element of spontaneity or surprise at what you get is lost.
What an absolutely awful choice of direction for them to have gone in.
RPGPundit
I run "Learn to Hack" sessions about 3 or 4 times per year. LTH(Learn To Hack) is what we call 4 Hour sessions where we take new people through character creation and teach the game basics and then run through a short session.
For the average newbie it takes 30 to 45 minutes for character creation with help from an experienced GM, and about 30 minutes to go through game instruction and question/answers about the system. The longest time I've taken was 2 hours to teach the system and create characters.
I think it is a good compromise between random and point buy. It makes it flexible to get a very different character. However, some people get "Analysis Paralysis" lockup.
The system isn't for everyone but it is a system that is loved by many, including the Kenzer&Co Design Team...
Quote from: RPGPundit;519002God I hate point buy.
And yet you don't have a problem with the Point Buy portion of Amber? Interesting...
Quote from: RPGPundit;519002God I hate point buy.
I can just imagine how ridiculously long that would take a newbie to distribute points into, and not to mention that all element of spontaneity or surprise at what you get is lost.
What an absolutely awful choice of direction for them to have gone in.
RPGPundit
I don't mind point buy too much, it's not great for newbies but a good GM and group can mitigate that a lot. The fractional scores though, not a fan it's just needless complexity to me.
Edit : Ninja'd
The fractional scores give a away for the character's stats to slowly go up over time. Every time the character goes up a level you get a set of dice(1d4p, 1d6p, 1d8p, 1d10p, 1d12p, 1d20p) that you assign to the character's stats, except Looks and the result of the rolls increase the fractional stats.
It also has the effect of expanding the modifiers of each one...
Quote from: greylond;519028The fractional scores give a away for the character's stats to slowly go up over time. Every time the character goes up a level you get a set of dice(1d4p, 1d6p, 1d8p, 1d10p, 1d12p, 1d20p) that you assign to the character's stats, except Looks and the result of the rolls increase the fractional stats.
It also has the effect of expanding the modifiers of each one...
Is that the only way to raise stats beyond the obvious, like magic item adders or spells? No auto raises like 3/4e? If so, I can buy it. Pretty elegant in fact.
Quote from: RPGPundit;519002God I hate point buy.
I can just imagine how ridiculously long that would take a newbie to distribute points into, and not to mention that all element of spontaneity or surprise at what you get is lost.
What an absolutely awful choice of direction for them to have gone in.
RPGPundit
I recently starting playing in a HackMaster game, my first one, and I have to say character generation was almost unbearably tedious for me.
Quote from: Marleycat;519032Is that the only way to raise stats beyond the obvious, like magic item adders or spells? No auto raises like 3/4e? If so, I can buy it. Pretty elegant in fact.
Correct. That is the only non-magical way to raise stats. For HM it started in HM4 and they just carried it over to the new system. In HM4 you couldn't assign the dice to a stat, each Class had a set system, i.e. Magic-Users always had 1d20p to Int and 1d4p to Str, Thieves always got 1d20p for Dex when they leveled.
Quote from: noisms;519042I recently starting playing in a HackMaster game, my first one, and I have to say character generation was almost unbearably tedious for me.
Yea, that's a personal thing for each player. I'm like many other people I know, including some on the K&Co staff that love going through Character Generation. For example generating a Traveller character is fun for me. Luckily, you can still use the HMb QuickStart Character generation system and have a perfectly playable character. You can download that for free from here;
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/HMb_quickstart_rules.pdf
Quote from: greylond;519045Yea, that's a personal thing for each player. I'm like many other people I know, including some on the K&Co staff that love going through Character Generation. For example generating a Traveller character is fun for me. Luckily, you can still use the HMb QuickStart Character generation system and have a perfectly playable character. You can download that for free from here;
http://www.kenzerco.com/free_files/HMb/HMb_quickstart_rules.pdf
Yeah, I can see how it would appeal to some people depending on what you like. I'm very much of the "let's just get this over with and start playing" school of thought, so all the rolling on tables and totting up BP and Honour for HackMaster drove me crazy. I felt like a 5-year-old wanting to throw a tantrum: "Can we just start playing please??"
Then either use the K&Co quickstart or you could use the Fan Made Quickstart rules that have some pregen characters in it. The Fan Made one can be found here;
http://www.terminal-studios.com/downloads/HackMaster-QuickStart-Guide.pdf
Quote from: noisms;519047Yeah, I can see how it would appeal to some people depending on what you like. I'm very much of the "let's just get this over with and start playing" school of thought, so all the rolling on tables and totting up BP and Honour for HackMaster drove me crazy. I felt like a 5-year-old wanting to throw a tantrum: "Can we just start playing please??"
I think that is the secret to complex character generation. can you amke it fun? Does the Character generation feel like its a game in itself ? If you can do that then making the character is enjoyable even if it takes 30 mins or more. If its like a mix of balancing your cheque book and defining the variable s for a java programme then you are agoign to loose a few people.
Traveller and Amber both get htis right. Both have complex chargen that takes time but both make the process enjoyable and they feel like part of the game rather than a chore you need to get through before the game starts.
I think if you use a point buy system you need to have a more fun method or a quickstart.
Quote from: greylond;519024And yet you don't have a problem with the Point Buy portion of Amber? Interesting...
Amber's Point buy is so straightforward that its not really cumbersome. You're paying for very set things, and you don't have enough points to make it an ordeal. You don't have 540CP to divide among 9 attributes, 40 skills and 400 powers to choose from.
RPGPundit
Quote from: jibbajibba;519051I think that is the secret to complex character generation. can you amke it fun? Does the Character generation feel like its a game in itself ? If you can do that then making the character is enjoyable even if it takes 30 mins or more. If its like a mix of balancing your cheque book and defining the variable s for a java programme then you are agoign to loose a few people.
Traveller and Amber both get htis right. Both have complex chargen that takes time but both make the process enjoyable and they feel like part of the game rather than a chore you need to get through before the game starts.
I think if you use a point buy system you need to have a more fun method or a quickstart.
Very well put.
RPGPundit
Quote from: greylond;518895NP, I'll have to remember to update this as I go up in level...
And anyone who has questions, please ask...
You should do a combat example--- in another thread of course.
(Yeah, I know about the comic book.)
There is a new combat example that is really good that is coming out in the PHB. That goes to the printers on Tues/Wed so hopefully they'll put it up on the web.
Also, I asked about updating the Quick Start Character Generation and Dave Kenzer said, "That's a Good Idea!" So they'll eventually update that also...
Quote from: RPGPundit;519329Amber's Point buy is so straightforward that its not really cumbersome. You're paying for very set things, and you don't have enough points to make it an ordeal. You don't have 540CP to divide among 9 attributes, 40 skills and 400 powers to choose from.
RPGPundit
Way to overstate the case to make your point look better. HM doesn't have "540 CP, 9 attributes, and 400 powers," it does have quiet a lot of skills though.
From your history with it that you've posted here I'm pretty sure that I was GM'ing Amber before you were(1991/1992), so I'm very familiar with Amber character generation. In fact I'd say that for teaching total newbies Amber is a little tougher because you have to teach people the basics of Zelazny's strange world/concepts whereas HackMaster's setting concepts are basic Medieval Fantasy that most gamers are very familiar with already. In my Amber campaign back then I had one other gamer who had read the books and the rest of the table who and never heard of the books(yea, I know, it shocked me too).
Comparing the two point buys, I'd say that they both take about the same amount of time for gamers who don't suffer from Analysis Paralysis, depending on how long the attribute auction takes. For example Hammer only took me about 20 minutes to put together.
Pundit you like Aces and Eights, the character creation is quite similar. If anything, the skill section is simpler then A&8's.
Yea, Dave Kenzer refers to A&8's as "HackMaster 4.5"...
Please Hammer, don't hurt 'em!
Sorry, I had to say that.
jg
Quote from: greylond;519345From your history with it that you've posted here I'm pretty sure that I was GM'ing Amber before you were(1991/1992), so I'm very familiar with Amber character generation.
I started playing Amber a few months before the Amber rulebook was released.
RPGPundit
Ok I didn't know that. My point was that I was GMing it back in '91/92 so I'm familiar enough with both systems to compare the two.
Quote from: CRKrueger;519392Pundit you like Aces and Eights, the character creation is quite similar. If anything, the skill section is simpler then A&8's.
I do like Aces & Eights, but I also think that character creation is too long and complicated a process in it; the players I had when I ran it agreed with that.
RPGPundit
Yea, again, a matter of personal taste. I know a bunch of people who love that character creation also.
Although, using the character creation spreadsheet that was created for it speeds up the process a lot. The spreadsheet is hosted at K&Co but maintained by some fans.
See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of problem on its hands.
RPGPundit
A&8's doesn't Require it, but it makes it easy. I think I've used Character Spreadsheets for every game I've ever played(including Amber), except maybe TOON.
Quote from: RPGPundit;519972See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of problem on its hands.
RPGPundit
Not necessarily, although in my experience if the guy who designed the spreadsheet also controls the webspace for the game company's software AND is also a bullying control freak, requiring the spreadsheet to make the character sure doesn't help. ;)
JG
Quote from: RPGPundit;519972See, any game that requires a SPREADSHEET to make your character has something of problem on its hands.
RPGPundit
Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.
Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.
Captain *nods* rides again.
Quote from: James Gillen;520126Not necessarily, although in my experience if the guy who designed the spreadsheet also controls the webspace for the game company's software AND is also a bullying control freak, requiring the spreadsheet to make the character sure doesn't help. ;)
JG
Not so in this case though!
Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.
So what about a lifepath game where you might spend a session making a character
I wrote a cyberpunk game we played for years (88 - 98) and that had 3 char gen options.
It was skills based so the Simple version took 20 mins - spend poitns buy skills
The lifepath option 1 which was some basic lifepath then spend points on each section - 1 hour
the full version - a good 4 hour session maybe longer with random skills + some choice and loads of random life events.
They all yeild characters with roughly the same number and level of skills but the full session was great. Basically ran through each PC year with events income purchases, injury rivalries all sorts.
When you end up with one PC (Dragard D'Bard) who is now a drug dealer but used to be a Pop star with 3 top ten hits and a season and a half as the sidekick on the Vancouver Connection, and a Japanese ex-wife and a minor addiction to Blu who now runs a real time sat feed from a floating cam bot and is trying to get it into the top 100 cam bot feeds so he can secure a sponsorship deal in order to give him the full blood wash he needs but can't afford. And another (SloWorm) that is a freelance assassin having been a failed gang member who did time for boosting hovercars but then met a guy who got him a contact with the Yakusa where he was eventually taken on as a hit man but quickly fell into disgrace following the Jessop Incident and who has a cheap clone replacement arm that doesn't quite match the skin colour of his other arm.
Then you know you have a full and developed character generation system :)
Yea, the more in-depth character generation, the better I like it. That sounds like a fun session. I've done similar sessions before and they always have done well.
Quote from: greylond;520151Not so in this case though!
You seem to have failed to see that it's not about character creation, but about finding every single damn flaw of HackMaster already, to prove that ThatGuyWhoCreatedIt&Co were fools for not going with the OSR or something.
greylond, thanks for explaining the ability scores thing. i like it, neat system.
i've been intrigued with HM ever since this thread (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?239492-101-Days-of-Hackmaster) but never got around to getting the books. one day. . . :)
I'd rather that the complexities of a character's background end up being the product of play, rather than already coming fully-loaded at the beginning.
Background story is like a very strong spice; just a tiny bit makes a recipe better, but cross the line even slightly and it blocks any other flavour from emerging.
RPGPundit
Quote from: Rincewind1;520197You seem to have failed to see that it's not about character creation, but about finding every single damn flaw of HackMaster already, to prove that ThatGuyWhoCreatedIt&Co were fools for not going with the OSR or something.
Heh, yea, I'm used to it. HM is designed by a very small group of writers. The newest version they are purposely going with their own mechanics so that they have total control over it and can make sure that the game is of a quality that they like. K&Co D-Team not only plays it, but they write it so that it ends up being a game that they would love to play. It has a specific design style that harkens back to the style of 1st Edition AD&D as played by grongards/Engineers. That style isn't for everyone, it is definitely isn't for anyone who only likes very simple rules systems.
Quote from: Benoist;520128Agreed. I've become HUGELY tired with this. Simple character sheets. 20 minutes character gen, just a bunch of numbers on paper, NOT a shitload of information is what I am looking for now.
And your character info had better fit on a 3x5 card. Seriously, I'm tired of multi-page character sheets.
Quote from: misterguignol;520401Seriously, I'm tired of multi-page character sheets.
But that's what this thread is about...
That's fine, to each his own, as long as you have fun. HM is designed for people who like in depth character creation. Sounds like that isn't you...
While HM sounds like too rules - heavy game for me, the random Quirks & Flaws table sounds very, very interesting, and something I may steal.
Quote from: Aos;520404But that's what this thread is about...
Touche, and point taken!
Hey, that's mod talk!
Quote from: Rincewind1;520406While HM sounds like too rules - heavy game for me, the random Quirks & Flaws table sounds very, very interesting, and something I may steal.
Actually, HM is pretty modular. There are many parts that you can just ignore if you want, but you'd be surprised how much you start using after you get used to the system. Actually, the way combat flows you really aren't bogged down very much by the rules.
Quote from: One Horse Town;520409Hey, that's mod talk!
I just wanted to tell someone else they were off topic, just to see how it feels.
feelsgoodman.jpg
Quote from: Aos;520415I just wanted to tell someone else they were off topic, just to see how it feels.
feelsgoodman.jpg
You're touching yourself aren't you?
Somebody has to.
Quote from: greylond;520410Actually, HM is pretty modular. There are many parts that you can just ignore if you want, but you'd be surprised how much you start using after you get used to the system. Actually, the way combat flows you really aren't bogged down very much by the rules.
Aye to that.
I'm famous for showing up with 20 minute PC specials. Just roll up a guy on the flly because I spaced and forgot to do and the game is suddenly upon me. ;)
But when I have the time I LURV using the full rules and letting the quirks and flaws, circumstances of birth tables and other parts of the process slowly bring a character to life.
There are quickstart rules and all sorts of options to cater to player tastes/style.
Most people who kneejerk are doing so at the full bore/full on Chargen rules. You can scale them down considerably it that's not your bag.
How easily can you do that, though, without either unbalancing the game, having some dependent-features that then have to further be edited out (like actions in the game that depend on which skills or quirks someone has), or creating a situation where a character is gimped?
You can make the "just don't use the parts you don't like" argument for any game, but only with certain games will that actually work.
In D&D 3e, for example, I could just not use skills and feats. But then I'd have to edit, revise, or remove a SHITLOAD of rules that depend on Skills and Feats. Also, if I was the only player character not to have skills or feats, I'd be pretty fucking pathetic compared to the guys who spent 8 hours meticulously character-building their epic guys full of featskilly goodness.
The problem is, I HATE having to spend 8 hours "character-building my guy"; i hate having to fiddle with points like a fucking beancounter. So why would I want to choose a game that is point-buy over a game where you roll randomly and create a character in 10 minutes?
RPGPundit
Just popping in to note that, while I'm usually in the "fast pcgen" camp, for HackMaster what I WANT is crazy over-the-top-ness, in the chargen as well as in other areas (and it delivers). HM pcgen is definitely a game in itself, in the vein of Traveller pcgen (but "turned up to 11"). Fans of lifepath-type systems will find something to enjoy, here.
That said, at least in HM4, there's a TON to pick and choose from for DMs of any TSR edition, even if you don't go all-out Knights of the Dinner Table. I find several HM rules slotting into my 1e AD&D game very nicely.
Yeah, as I said in my RPG.net review of Hackmaster Basic, I didn't like the fact that it didn't let you "min-max" as much as Hackmaster 4th Edition. This is HACKMASTER. Minmaxing is kind of the POINT.
JG
Quote from: RPGPundit;521242How easily can you do that, though, without either unbalancing the game, having some dependent-features that then have to further be edited out (like actions in the game that depend on which skills or quirks someone has), or creating a situation where a character is gimped?
Pretty easy.
QuoteThe problem is, I HATE having to spend 8 hours "character-building my guy"; i hate having to fiddle with points like a fucking beancounter. So why would I want to choose a game that is point-buy over a game where you roll randomly and create a character in 10 minutes?
RPGPundit
I can do a HM character in about 20 minutes. It really depends on how much into it you get. If you know the system and already know what you want I can see it getting done in 15. One trick that I picked up from Topher for H4 is that you prep a few character types then you'd like to play and then it is easy to roll up the character.
Quote from: James Gillen;521344Yeah, as I said in my RPG.net review of Hackmaster Basic, I didn't like the fact that it didn't let you "min-max" as much as Hackmaster 4th Edition. This is HACKMASTER. Minmaxing is kind of the POINT.
JG
HMb is a basic intro to HM, so yea it was cut down some. Just wait until you see the new HM PHB...
greylond- thanks for the thread. I appreciate seeing the mechanics of character creation for HM. :)
Not a problem. We're in the middle of taking a couple of weeks break, once Hammer goes up a level I'll post what I do for going up a level...
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;521330Just popping in to note that, while I'm usually in the "fast pcgen" camp, for HackMaster what I WANT is crazy over-the-top-ness, in the chargen as well as in other areas (and it delivers). HM pcgen is definitely a game in itself, in the vein of Traveller pcgen (but "turned up to 11"). Fans of lifepath-type systems will find something to enjoy, here.
Yes, fans of Random Lifepath generation like in Traveller will clearly find much in common with a game that doesn't actually have lifepaths, doesn't actually have "random", and is nowhere near as simple as Traveller.
RPGPundit
Quote from: RPGPundit;521682Yes, fans of Random Lifepath generation like in Traveller will clearly find much in common with a game that doesn't actually have lifepaths, doesn't actually have "random", and is nowhere near as simple as Traveller.
RPGPundit
Lifepaths are in the class books for HM4, not sure about the new version. Random is all over the place there. Simple is pretty orthogonal to the discussion at hand. I'll go ahead and consider myself thoroughly chastised if it makes you feel any better, though.
Quote from: DestroyYouAlot;521748Lifepaths are in the class books for HM4, not sure about the new version. Random is all over the place there. Simple is pretty orthogonal to the discussion at hand. I'll go ahead and consider myself thoroughly chastised if it makes you feel any better, though.
I'm with you in that I prefer simple chargen, which is a relative term at best, but I love lifepath systems. It's probably the reason I'll give HM a chance because generally I dislike fiddlely point buy systems as this looks to be.
On the otherhand Warhammer's lifepath system is a major reason contributing to my affection for the game.
HackMaster is only as "Fiddly" as you want it. If you want to play a character with a bunch of Quirks/Flaws and a whole bunch of skills and/or talents, then you can do that. If you just want a basic Fighter type with very few skills, i.e. mostly just skilled in a couple of weapons, then you can do that also.
Dave Kenzer has also said that they'll be looking at updating the HMb "QuickStart Character Generation" system...