I posted this is another thread last night, but the thread got consumed in the Darwinism shit storm.  So I'm posting it as its own thread.

I will admit upfront that I am neither a businessman nor a game designer nor an "industry professional," whatever that is.  But this is what I would do if I was suddenly put in charge of 5e:

- the core book (and it would be one book instead of the usual 3-book split) would be available as a free pdf download from the D&D website.  The came would be simplified; the complexities introduced in 3e and 4e would be stripped away.  The core book would also available in hardcover for people who like books as physical objects at the table.

If retro-clones can operate on this model, so can flagship D&D.  And I think it might need to, so it can prove that it is accessible as a game.  Also, let's not pretend that someone out there won't just pirate the core book anyway.

If they have the ability to make the next version of D&D scale-able in terms of complexity (which I am skeptical of) I could see them putting out things like:

- a boxed set for turning the basic combat engine into a tactical skirmish-level wargame (as it is in 4e) complete with battlemaps and counters (it's harder to pirate components than it is books, after all)

- a compendium of updated old-school classic modules (again perhaps in a box with goodies that would be difficult to scan & upload)

- products geared toward showing how the game can encompass a wide variety of flavors (high fantasy, sword & sorcery, weird fantasy, wuxia, etc.), each with rules variations and add-ons for genre emulation

- bring back some of the classic settings (closer to their original presentations) to show how diverse the game can be (Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, hell even Eberron if you like--each should feel different); again, this is an opportunity to package these products with cool tangible components

That's what I would do.  What would you do?  (Or, what would you add to my pie-in-the-sky model outlined above?)

Add settings from Magic the Gathering.

Add rules how to combine MtG cards with DnD.

Quote from: Rincewind1;500859Add settings from Magic the Gathering.

Add rules how to combine MtG cards with DnD.

This is the last thing I would want to see with 5E.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;500863This is the last thing I would want to see with 5E.

Why? I'd love nothing more then rules how to convert creatures from MtG cards, and guidelines how to use random set of cards to set up a whole scenario.

Maybe I am the only guy who thinks MtG and DnD can go hand in hand .

Quote from: misterguignol;500857If retro-clones can operate on this model, so can flagship D&D.

Retro-clones don't need to make money as a business.  As for ZOMG Piracy!, I don't think we've hit the Napster Event Horizon for e-books yet.

Quotebring back some of the classic settings (closer to their original presentations) to show how diverse the game can be (Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, hell even Eberron if you like--each should feel different)

The danger here is that they'd repeat the 2nd ed mistake of competing with themselves by producing too many different products in an already saturated market.

I think you're right about not being able to pirate board games as easily, but you have to sell a lot of units to keep the per-unit cost down on those.

Quote from: Rincewind1;500866Why? I'd love nothing more then rules how to convert creatures from MtG cards, and guidelines how to use random set of cards to set up a whole scenario.

Maybe I am the only guy who thinks MtG and DnD can go hand in hand .

I don't think you are the only one, but I have never found MtG fun. So adding it to D&D would only be a negative for me.

Quote from: BedrockBrendan;500871I don't think you are the only one, but I have never found MtG fun. So adding it to D&D would only be a negative for me.

I did not mean this as a core mechanic, just a small rulebook in the boxed set/a few pages in GM's manual. A cherry on a cake, not even icing.

Quote from: daniel_ream;500870Retro-clones don't need to make money as a business.  As for ZOMG Piracy!, I don't think we've hit the Napster Event Horizon for e-books yet.

The danger here is that they'd repeat the 2nd ed mistake of competing with themselves by producing too many different products in an already saturated market.

I think you're right about not being able to pirate board games as easily, but you have to sell a lot of units to keep the per-unit cost down on those.

Of course, this is why I specified that I'm not a businessman

Those hard - to - pirate goodies do remind me of a certain FFG project...>.>.

Might be just  the fact that it is Warhammer and not DnD, but I do not think W3e is faring that grand.

Quote from: Rincewind1;500875Those hard - to - pirate goodies do remind me of a certain FFG project...>.>.

Might be just  the fact that it is Warhammer and not DnD, but I do not think W3e is faring that grand.

Well, the Warhammer 3e pricepoint is much higher than what I would have in mind.

Also, I think it isn't faring well because the core set gives you far less to play with than previous editions of the game.  People recognize diminishing returns.

Quote from: misterguignol;500857I posted this is another thread last night, but the thread got consumed in the Darwinism shit storm.  So I'm posting it as its own thread.

I will admit upfront that I am neither a businessman nor a game designer nor an "industry professional," whatever that is.  But this is what I would do if I was suddenly put in charge of 5e:

- the core book (and it would be one book instead of the usual 3-book split) would be available as a free pdf download from the D&D website.  The came would be simplified; the complexities introduced in 3e and 4e would be stripped away.  The core book would also available in hardcover for people who like books as physical objects at the table.

So you're proposing a sort of spiritual child of Castles & Crusades for the base engine, if I understand this well?

Quote from: misterguignol;500857I could see them putting out things like:

- a boxed set for turning the basic combat engine into a tactical skirmish-level wargame (as it is in 4e) complete with battlemaps and counters (it's harder to pirate components than it is books, after all)

- a compendium of updated old-school classic modules (again perhaps in a box with goodies that would be difficult to scan & upload)

- products geared toward showing how the game can encompass a wide variety of flavors (high fantasy, sword & sorcery, weird fantasy, wuxia, etc.), each with rules variations and add-ons for genre emulation

- bring back some of the classic settings (closer to their original presentations) to show how diverse the game can be (Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, hell even Eberron if you like--each should feel different); again, this is an opportunity to package these products with cool tangible components

That's what I would do.  What would you do?  (Or, what would you add to my pie-in-the-sky model outlined above?)

And then, supplements that actually turn that base into whatever it is that you like in your D&D, whether you come from Classic, 3E, 4E whatnot? Like adding the concept of feats into a dedicated supplement, another turning your game into a battlemat, figs-heavy tactical game, another strictly balancing everything within the corpus of the rules like 4E intended, and so on?

Quote from: Benoist;500877So you're proposing a sort of spiritual child of Castles & Crusades for the base engine, if I understand this well?

Yeah, that's more or less in the ballpark of how I would imagine the base game.

QuoteAnd then, supplements that actually turn that base into whatever it is that you like in your D&D, whether you come from Classic, 3E, 4E whatnot? Like adding the concept of feats into a dedicated supplement, another turning your game into a battlemat, figs-heavy tactical game, another strictly balancing everything within the corpus of the rules like 4E intended, and so on?

Yeah, that's pretty much it.  One thing I want to add though: the add-ons would have be equal parts mechanical supplements and flavor/fluff/ideas about genre emulation.  

I wouldn't want this to head down the path of having to buy certain add-ons just because you wanted to add an obscure class to your character "build" (which was a problem I saw in 3e) or because you wanted to use a race that was inconveniently tucked-away in a supplement (like the drow race being introduced in the Forgotten Realms book in 4e).

Quote from: Rincewind1;500866Why? I'd love nothing more then rules how to convert creatures from MtG cards, and guidelines how to use random set of cards to set up a whole scenario.

Maybe I am the only guy who thinks MtG and DnD can go hand in hand .

I think there is mileage here.

When they design a MTG 'block' which is a set of 3 expansions each is set in a well designed and thought through world. These worlds have competing creatures with certain falvours. So in the Scars of Mirrodin Block they have a world full of 'magic machiones' robot like gollems basically. You have a race of elves, a bunch of these living machaniods, a tribe of Goblins, some human warriors, some cat people, some elephant men etc etc ...

There is easily material there for a D&D source book to accompany that Block. You have a beastiary, some new races, classes, spells, magic items etc etc.

The Blocks each have to have a strong theme otherwise the Mtg element feels flat and isn't terrible interesting so each of them, whether it's the Endless City world of Ravinca, the living tech of Mirrodin, the Gothic horror of Amistraad have a strong background and roleplay potential.

Quote from: misterguignol;500857I posted this is another thread last night, but the thread got consumed in the Darwinism shit storm.  So I'm posting it as its own thread.

I will admit upfront that I am neither a businessman nor a game designer nor an "industry professional," whatever that is.  But this is what I would do if I was suddenly put in charge of 5e:

- the core book (and it would be one book instead of the usual 3-book split) would be available as a free pdf download from the D&D website.  The came would be simplified; the complexities introduced in 3e and 4e would be stripped away.  The core book would also available in hardcover for people who like books as physical objects at the table.

If retro-clones can operate on this model, so can flagship D&D.  And I think it might need to, so it can prove that it is accessible as a game.  Also, let's not pretend that someone out there won't just pirate the core book anyway.

If they have the ability to make the next version of D&D scale-able in terms of complexity (which I am skeptical of) I could see them putting out things like:

- a boxed set for turning the basic combat engine into a tactical skirmish-level wargame (as it is in 4e) complete with battlemaps and counters (it's harder to pirate components than it is books, after all)

- a compendium of updated old-school classic modules (again perhaps in a box with goodies that would be difficult to scan & upload)

- products geared toward showing how the game can encompass a wide variety of flavors (high fantasy, sword & sorcery, weird fantasy, wuxia, etc.), each with rules variations and add-ons for genre emulation

- bring back some of the classic settings (closer to their original presentations) to show how diverse the game can be (Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, hell even Eberron if you like--each should feel different); again, this is an opportunity to package these products with cool tangible components

That's what I would do.  What would you do?  (Or, what would you add to my pie-in-the-sky model outlined above?)

I like this one the best...

- bring back some of the classic settings (closer to their original presentations) to show how diverse the game can be (Ravenloft, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, hell even Eberron if you like--each should feel different); again, this is an opportunity to package these products with cool tangible components

I'd take the D&D Rules Cyclopedia as starting point -  its a good book and I always preferred its simple iconic, classes to the class/race mix of AD&D.

I would streamline the rules a bit, make it more unified and take AC and Save from 3e for instance.

I would also do something to make the gameplay less attritional. The Vancian magic system, the resource management of hitpoints, healing spellls and potions are neither interesting nor heroic to me. And outside of the dungeon (or other situation where you can expect multiple encounters within a short space of time) it sort of gets in the way. To that effect I'd probably I'd replace the Vancian magic with a spell point system and make natural healing easier - maybe borrowing the concept of "reserves" from Omega World.

Also I'd add some sort of Hero Point mechanic. I personally feel all systems need some way to simulate those times a character is really motivated to put that extra bit of effort and oompf in what he does. It just seem crazy that regardless of whether you are trying to save your daughter or just your neighbour's pet turtle from a blazing fire you still roll the same D20 with the same exact odds.

That's the general picture. I'm pretty sure the fans would hate it and it would tank terribly, but when I do run D&D or the old TSR Gamma World that's the sort of spin I give it.