I couldn't care even a little bit less than I do.  Fortunately, no one else really cares either, not in any significant numbers at least.  This isn't a revival of WW, its a funeral dirge.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;499706Fortunately, no one else really cares either, not in any significant numbers at least.

Your butthurt is showing again. This thread, and several others at RPGnet and other forums, suggest otherwise.

But hey, maybe if you repeat this often enough, it becomes true. Right?

Quote from: The Butcher;499751Your butthurt is showing again. This thread, and several others at RPGnet and other forums, suggest otherwise.

But hey, maybe if you repeat this often enough, it becomes true. Right?

I'm sorry, since when were internet threads an indication of sales? Last time I checked, WW's market share had dropped to below 1%.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;499920Last time I checked, WW's market share had dropped to below 1%.

Now this is indeed interesting, what is your source for such figures?

Quote from: RPGPundit;499920I'm sorry, since when were internet threads an indication of sales? Last time I checked, WW's market share had dropped to below 1%.

RPGPundit

You said there wasn't interest.

I pointed out that this thread, and similar threads in other forums, suggest otherwise.

You suddenly shift the goalposts to sales, and suggest that White Wolf's are "beneath 1%" (beneath 1% of what? Of the current RPG market? Of their Q2 1993 sales? Of the GDP of Belgium?), obviously without citing, let alone linking, a source for this spurious figure.

Nice try. If you don't have anything of substance to contribute to the thread, by all means, I suggest you take your threadcrapping elsewhere. It's a big forum, and you own all of it. Maybe you could start a thread of your own, I'm sure Ron Edwards or Vince Baker are up to something truly horrid that's threatening the entire RPG hobby right now.

Had you read my blog some time ago, which I know most of you do, you'd know where the figure came from.  Recent sales figures which show a downward spiral for white wolf since the late nineties; where they went from 26% or better, to 22%, to 17% around the time just before nWoD, to 16% after that, and then plunged quickly down to oblivion.  They haven't been on the ICV2 top 5 list for ages, and its generally agreed that everything other than D&D and Pathfinder, including the next 3 sellers in the top 5 list, are all under 4% market share.

Not to mention that Ryan Dancey described WW not very long ago as a company that was only making RPG products as a "legacy product".

Stick a fork in them, they're done.

RPGPundit

How well is DTRPG/RPGNow doing? I thought that it was owned by WW.

Quote from: RPGPundit;500104They haven't been on the ICV2 top 5 list for ages, and its generally agreed that everything other than D&D and Pathfinder, including the next 3 sellers in the top 5 list, are all under 4% market share.

Isn't ICv2's ranking based on interviews with specific companies and stores, completely ignoring digital sales through, say, Drivethru which is how WW has been releasing all of their material for some time now?

Quote from: GrimGent;500201Isn't ICv2's ranking based on interviews with specific companies and stores, completely ignoring digital sales through, say, Drivethru which is how WW has been releasing all of their material for some time now?

That only supports the argument for them being at most an company that does rpgs as a legacy product.

RPGPundit

They do TRPGs as legacy products. The WoD MMO project is where it's at right now... project which is OWoD in nature and ... oh. Look! A 30th anniversary edition of the game we always knew you loved! Here play it again! Now, you want more? Well, there is this AWESOME MMO we are working on right now...

Now that said, I'm sure V20 was/is super popular. I know gamers who haven't bought an RPG product for years (while still playing - there are in fact many gamers in that situation that I know of) who  decided to break the piggy bank on it. There's interest alright. I think it's delusional to think otherwise.

Quote from: Benoist;500247They do TRPGs as legacy products. The WoD MMO project is where it's at right now... project which is OWoD in nature and ... oh. Look! A 30th anniversary edition of the game we always knew you loved! Here play it again! Now, you want more? Well, there is this AWESOME MMO we are working on right now...

I do not believe the future of WoD MMO is that bright:

http://www.eveonline.com/news.asp?a=single&nid=4769&tid=1

The success of 20th anniversary edition was more an accident than careful marketing plan. The the huge demand for VtM20 left WW a bit baffled, after all they did not have initially any plans on how to distribute the book to persons not attending Grand Masquerade.

Quote from: Benoist;500247I think it's delusional to think otherwise.

I find it incredibly cute that you people still engage pundy and his mad ravings instead of pointing and making fun of him. It is as if you guys somehow believe in some fundamental good in poeple or something like that ^^

Quote from: RPGPundit;500104Had you read my blog some time ago,

Fat chance.

Quote from: RPGPundit;500104which I know most of you do, you'd know where the figure came from.  Recent sales figures which show a downward spiral for white wolf since the late nineties; where they went from 26% or better, to 22%, to 17% around the time just before nWoD, to 16% after that, and then plunged quickly down to oblivion.  They haven't been on the ICV2 top 5 list for ages, and its generally agreed that everything other than D&D and Pathfinder, including the next 3 sellers in the top 5 list, are all under 4% market share.

Again, what are those figures? 26% of what?

And you don't even bother providing a link, natch.

I'll concur that WW is but a shadow of the industry giant it was in the 90s, they've all but said so on RPGnet and on their own forums. But this just makes me even more intrigued, mystified even, at the energy and time you devote to attacking them. That's rather a lot of butthurt, even for your very high standards. Did you walk on a Vampire LARP player doing your mom when you were 5, or something?

Personally I think WW is the only of the big company who read the changes that are coming correctly. Splat treadmills are going to die, not because the  hobby is going to die, but because there are now incredibly attractive alternatives for just about any kind of playstyles whether you are trad or indy or like ponies. whatever, the hobby has got you covered.
WW realized that and shifted its model. Now they mostly release "cool shit that not a lot of people might need but some will really love" and sell that via pdf/pod.
And that is the way to go. The market share of ALL big RPGs has gone down significantly since the inception of RPGs and that is a trend that is most likely to continue.
I for one, welcome this. I'd rather have a hundred smaller game companies that do different and new stuff then another 30 years of D&D and its derivates.

Quote from: DominikSchwager;500541I find it incredibly cute that you people still engage pundy and his mad ravings instead of pointing and making fun of him. It is as if you guys somehow believe in some fundamental good in poeple or something like that ^^

As a matter of fact I do. To quote the Italian Job, I trust everyone. It's the devil inside them I don't trust.