Quote from: deleriad;493568In Chaosium RQ2 CHA had more of an influence in character advancement than you realise because your cost to buy training was reduced by CHA so essentially CHA helped you either progress more quickly or enabled you to buy more stuff while progressing at the same rate.

Well, you're right again! Just goes to show what misperceptions can arise from playing a houseruled mishmash.

I do think, though, that explicitly tying CHA to obtaining training (since training is still covered by MRQII) would be a better approach than using CHA as part of your free development rolls, which have substituted for the old method of getting development rolls for successful skill use in an adventure.

The idea is to avoid the development farming you get with rolls tied directly to skill use.

"Are there any trees around? I climb them to practice my Climb." *checks box next to Climb*

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;493600The idea is to avoid the development farming you get with rolls tied directly to skill use.

"Are there any trees around? I climb them to practice my Climb." *checks box next to Climb*

That never works in D100 games I run. Only actual use of a skill where success or failure truly matters earns a skill check. "Practicing skills" is covered by the training rules.

Quote from: RandallS;493626That never works in D100 games I run. Only actual use of a skill where success or failure truly matters earns a skill check. "Practicing skills" is covered by the training rules.

It may not happen at your table, but it happens. It's a pretty well known problem - so much so that there are jokes about it.

Also, tracking it all can be a pain in the ass. Especially over time, since you've got to make sure people remember to erase the little ticks between sessions.

See p.38 of the Legend PDF, "When and When Not to Roll". It clearly states that skill rolls are only made when it matters. If you don't roll, you can't get a skill check.

Another one who picked up the game for a dollar and the Monsters book as well. Still cheap at that. Just need to print/bind it now, probably with a brown leatherette hardback cover I should think (got yards of the stuff on the cheap).

Yes, ultimately it was worth it as a cheap printable/portable resource/SRD even if the likelihood I'll play it RAW is minuscule.

As for "development farming", I used to think it could be a problem, now I doubt that it is. In any case, even if I awarded a # of rolls without reference to whatever happened during adventures, I wouldn't use the CHA rule as-is; instead as I suggested above I would use CHA to modify the cost and availability of training.

Quote from: RandallS;493626That never works in D100 games I run. Only actual use of a skill where success or failure truly matters earns a skill check. "Practicing skills" is covered by the training rules.

Quote from: Vile;493640See p.38 of the Legend PDF, "When and When Not to Roll". It clearly states that skill rolls are only made when it matters. If you don't roll, you can't get a skill check.

The irony is that it's not a houserule, in all the 1d100 games I have played or read, the rules state you only get a skill check when you use it towards a significant goal. However, this hasn't stopped people from abusing the rule.

Quote from: Pseudoephedrine;493631It may not happen at your table, but it happens. It's a pretty well known problem - so much so that there are jokes about it.

Also, tracking it all can be a pain in the ass. Especially over time, since you've got to make sure people remember to erase the little ticks between sessions.

Yes, I agree that those are serious flaws in the BRP system.  Of course, the former can be mitigated with GM fiat.  I just don't let my players check unless I deem it something worthy of a check.  

The latter is a hassle when its unintentional, and a bitch when its intentional.  And we can't just ignore that: its easier for cheaters to cheat on their character's advancement (or potential advancement at least) in BRP than in other systems.

RPGPundit

The improvement roll situation in Legend makes it pretty easy to keep track of, as do the hero points in OQ.

Quote from: RPGPundit;494216Yes, I agree that those are serious flaws in the BRP system.  Of course, the former can be mitigated with GM fiat.  I just don't let my players check unless I deem it something worthy of a check.

What you do is not a houserule, it's what the rules actually say:

QuoteGamemasters generally allow experience checks whenever skills are successfully used in stressful situations. An attack against a helpless target is not a stressful situation and does not deserve an experience check. Likewise, taking an hour to pick a lock (using the Devise skill) is not a stressful situation - but doing it in one melee round as the trolls approach is a stressful situation, and deserves a check.

From RQ3 Deluxe, Players Book p 36.

Yes, I know, a lot of people ignore it, but it's actually in the fucking book. You cannot accuse the system of a flaw when people constantly ignore the rules.
 

QuoteThe latter is a hassle when its unintentional, and a bitch when its intentional.  And we can't just ignore that: its easier for cheaters to cheat on their character's advancement (or potential advancement at least) in BRP than in other systems.

RPGPundit

Frankly, cheaters are gonna cheat. As with all the dickish behaviors, the only thing you can do is talk to them, and if this doesn't work, kick them out.

It probably is a real issue with the younger players, but I think the benefits of an experience system that directly awards characters for their actions far outweigh the potential annoyance of cheaters. I personally haven't come across this in years, possibly because my age group of players are less entertained by cheating these days and I've rarely refereed groups too large to be able to watch what they're up to with their character sheets.

I suppose the referee could always note down ticks himself rather than let the players do it. Makes less of a mess of character sheets, too.

There is even an element of reality to 'tick-hunting'. Professionals often leap at the chance to practice their skills in areas that they don't get to use every day. It's one of the reasons you should always be wary of doctors advising you to undergo unusual surgical procedures ... :eek:

Claudius, I agree with you on the first point. Its true that you can't blame the game for people not reading how its actually run or bad GMs not enforcing it.

As to your second point, though, "cheaters are gonna cheat", its a lot easier to spot a cheater in an RC D&D character than in Runequest or other BRP games.  

In D&D, the guy can fudge the dice rolls, or can write the wrong xp down.  If he actually tries to change stats like to-hit, AC, saving throw, or special abilities, you can always check because these values will be consistently the same for his class and level.  This will even be true of hit points within a certain range, and the HP roll is the most likely to be carefully observed and noted by the GM and other players.

In BRP; a guy can consistently check boxes he wasn't supposed to check, and roll them at the experience phase. There's nothing but the rest of the group's memory to say otherwise, if they're even paying attention (and most GMs I know would just say "ok everyone do your advancement rolls").  If he's suspected of having cheated, there's no way to check to see if his skills are "too high" because everyone's skills will be different and at different values and can advance at different values.

Obviously, its still true that a "cheater is gonna (want to) cheat"; but one game is far more likely to tempt said cheater to try to cheat than the other, and because in that game he'll have a much likelier attempt to pull it off.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;494585Obviously, its still true that a "cheater is gonna (want to) cheat"; but one game is far more likely to tempt said cheater to try to cheat than the other, and because in that game he'll have a much likelier attempt to pull it off.

Um, just don't play with cheaters.

Seriously, life is too short to waste one's leisure time with dicks.

Quote from: Akrasia;494590Um, just don't play with cheaters.

Quoted for truth.