Hypothetical scenario: you have the chance to introduce a group of teens who have never played to the world of fantasy RPGs.  What game do you pick as their introduction and why?

D&D 4e.

From the player's end it is easy to understand, color coded for ease of use, and has point and click PC gen. Hard to beat.

It may not be my favorite version of D&D, but it sure is easy on the n00bs.

"Uncomplicated and dumbed down for me," as my n00b wife put it.

Quote from: misterguignol;446279Hypothetical scenario: you have the chance to introduce a group of teens who have never played to the world of fantasy RPGs.  What game do you pick as their introduction and why?

Depends on the group, but if I want big world/epicness, High Valor (I wrote it and explain it readily.)  If I want dungeon crawling, Tunnels and Trolls or BECMI D&D, as they're relatively simple and easy to explain as well. BECMI is a middle ground between the two--start with low level dungeon and exploration of the world, and eventually move up to rulers of the land. While High Valor can do dungeon crawling, its more about fighting the good fight against a world threatened by darkness.

Quote from: PaladinCA;446285D&D 4e.

From the player's end it is easy to understand, color coded for ease of use, and has point and click PC gen. Hard to beat.

It may not be my favorite version of D&D, but it sure is easy on the n00bs.

"Uncomplicated and dumbed down for me," as my n00b wife put it.

Even easier would be the 4E Essentials "Rules Compendium" and "Heroes of the Fallen Lands" (HotFL) books.

HotFL has the classic base classes (fighter, rogue, wizard, cleric) and races (human, elf, dwarf, halfling).

The 4E Essentials fighter and rogue classes are a lot easier to play than their Heinsoo 4E versions.

Quote from: PaladinCA;446285D&D 4e.

From the player's end it is easy to understand, color coded for ease of use, and has point and click PC gen. Hard to beat.

It may not be my favorite version of D&D, but it sure is easy on the n00bs.

"Uncomplicated and dumbed down for me," as my n00b wife put it.

Really?  I like 4e more than most on this site, but I am genuinely surprised at this answer!  Here's why: 4e has a lot of moving parts.  Attributes, skills, powers, feats, healing surges, armor class, etc.

I'm dubious that a complete newbie could really wrap their mind around all of that.

Quote from: Silverlion;446286Depends on the group, but if I want big world/epicness, High Valor (I wrote it and explain it readily.)

I've actually always wanted to check out your game, but I fear its too embedded in its own setting to be what I like.

Quote from: misterguignol;446288Really?  I like 4e more than most on this site, but I am genuinely surprised at this answer!  Here's why: 4e has a lot of moving parts.  Attributes, skills, powers, feats, healing surges, armor class, etc.

I'm dubious that a complete newbie could really wrap their mind around all of that.

Perhaps not a complete newbie.

Though a newbie who has a background of playing a lot of video games, could understand concepts like healing surges, armor class, etc ...

In particular, somebody who has played Everquest or World of Warcraft before.

Quote from: misterguignol;446279Hypothetical scenario: you have the chance to introduce a group of teens who have never played to the world of fantasy RPGs.  What game do you pick as their introduction and why?

I would ask them what sort of fantasy they'd like to play. What ideas they like. If there's something in the world of fantasy that appeals particularly to them (books, movies, whatnot), and why. Some people might like Hogwarts and the wizarding world. Others will want to feel enthused by the idea of exploring Middle-earth. Others still will want to slay giant scorpions or face the Kraken as if playing Clash of the Titans.

Likewise, I will throw some ideas of games and wait for their reaction, paying particular attention to what makes them react positively. If you mention a game exploring dark castles and trying to find out what happened to the family that lived there, say, you might notice some people getting excited about the mystery, others by the idea of kicking the ass of monsters, and so on. The point is to detect what types of activity they'd like in an RPG, and make a choice of game and starting adventure from there.

THEN, I make a decision as to the game that might be most appropriate to bring about what these people feel excited about. Ideas like exploration, swords and sorcery, Conan and the like might push me to use a variation of O/AD&D (could go with Swords & Wizardry, OSRIC, or the middle-of-the-road compromise, Labyrinth Lord). A strong liking of Middle-earth might make me want to use the Decipher game, MERP or something else entirely. Hogwarts and the wizarding world might make me want to use a homebrew variant of Innocents, for the WoD. Likewise, a liking for Lestat, Werewolf/Vampire stories points towards WoD. Etc.

What really matters is to make sure you tailor the game to the people you play with. Take into account your own likes and dislikes obviously (because if you're not yourself excited about what you run, there is no chance in hell to communicate any of that to the players in return), but make sure that the players get what they want, even if they don't know it, or don't have the RPG knowledge to express it. Translate their tastes and excitement into an RPG medium, in other words.

Without a doubt the Swords & Wizardry Quick Start followed by Swords & Wizardry itself.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=63665

Call of Cthulhu.

Quote from: misterguignol;446288I'm dubious that a complete newbie could really wrap their mind around all of that.

They don't have to. They have to wrap their head around what's printed on their character sheet, which is decently codified and pre-calculated.

Moreover, complexity of ideas isn't the issue that folks make it out to be. There are some hideously complex games out there, but in the case of most games, if you can fill out a job application, a tax form, et al., you can create a character. Even on your own.

I'd recommend 4e or Pathfinder because D&D is the lingua franca of the realm. In my estimation, even BD&D would be better than an insular (or insular and simpler) game.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;446300They don't have to. They have to wrap their head around what's printed on their character sheet, which is decently codified and pre-calculated.

Moreover, complexity of ideas isn't the issue that folks make it out to be. There are some hideously complex games out there, but in the case of most games, if you can fill out a job application, a tax form, et al., you can create a character. Even on your own.

I'd recommend 4e or Pathfinder because D&D is the lingua franca of the realm. In my estimation, even BD&D would be better than an insular (or insular and simpler) game.

Seanchai

That's actually a really good point that I hadn't considered.  Thanks for that.

Quote from: Imperator;446294Call of Cthulhu.

This.

If there was ever any doubt.

Well, anything BRP related.

Why?

What better way to warp young minds? And it is what I am most familiar with.

Quote from: misterguignol;446279Hypothetical scenario: you have the chance to introduce a group of teens who have never played to the world of fantasy RPGs.  What game do you pick as their introduction and why?

In the USA/UK:

Tough one.

   Swords & Wizardry Quickstart
A compact intro to D&D style fantasy.
It's free, and there is a world of free compatible follow-up product available.
The only problem: Polyhedrons not included. Where do n00bs find polyhedrons these days?

Lamentations of the Flame Princess
Writing-wise, this is one of the best introductory games I've ever seen - explanation of basics, solo adventure, the whole works.
The themes are what make this product difficult. The layout style is so out-of-synch with today's fantasy publishing cliches that I can't imagine a teen n00b being drawn to this game.
Another problem: the first edition is not available anymore, and the upcoming "Grindhouse" edition is clearly not suited for teen n00bs.

Dragon Age
The system is ok, DA is a popular license, but there are not enough follow-up products. What should a n00b buy and play after the initial box and one module?

And I would eye The One Ring closely...

In France:

   Chroniques Oubliees
A 3.x inspired introductory game. WoW style artwork, full color throughout, three short adventures included. Character creation is easy: roll abilities, choose class, adjust saves, pick 2 feats (from three thematic lists of 4 each) - go play!
It's compatible with 3.x modules (Pathfinder paths are available in French) although the DM has to fiddle around with rules details, without explanation what and how to adjust.
And if you want to play higher than level 4 you are on your own - the promised full version of the game has not appeared. But once the principle is understood the group can of course switch to Pathfinder (by the same publisher...).

In Germany:

   Dungeonslayers
The second printing of the 4e rules will be wrapped in a real, old fashioned introductory box, with a primer, dice, and adventure.
There are follow-up 1-page modules (10+ free downloads, "Dungeon2Go").



But the true question is: why fantasy?

I would think that there are other genres more popular today - Star Wars (still), romantic vampires, mages in training, Supernatural?

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;446308Lamentations of the Flame Princess
Writing-wise, this is one of the best introductory games I've ever seen - explanation of basics, solo adventure, the whole works.
The themes are what make this product difficult. The layout style is so out-of-synch with today's fantasy publishing cliches that I can't imagine a teen n00b being drawn to this game.
Another problem: the first edition is not available anymore, and the upcoming "Grindhouse" edition is clearly not suited for teen n00bs.

I think you underestimate how attracted to grotesquery teenagers are!

I will likely be getting the Grindhouse edition just because I like the art I've seen so far, so this one is a possibility.

If I were to go with an "old-school" game I'd rather go with something that this that puts its own spin on the material instead of the somewhat slavish adherence to older-edition D&D-isms that seems to be the bread and butter of some of the OSR crowd.