After reading both of the links it pretty much looks like a case of non-gamers don't get gamers.

The trouble started when a guard got a tip that a group of inmates were starting a 'D&D Gang' and were trying to get people to join it. By that definition we are all guilty of forming organized gangs and should probably do time for it.

The objections raised were fairly laughable, such as "it encourages prisoners to fantasize about not being in prison." Is there a prisoner who doesn't think about leaving prison?

The positiong of DM was likened to criminal kingpin who gave orders which are carried out unquestioningly...as if. I've never run a game where my word was law. RPGers are the most argumentative group of people on this planet.

Finally, yes prison is punishment for a crime, but it's also supposed to be rehabilitation. Roleplaying games are a form of social interaction and one of the primary problems cited by experts is that ex-cons have trouble interacting with people once they get out of prison. I also don't have problems with recreation for prisoners. Humans need both physical and mental exercise to be healthy, denying it to a prisoner is unjust.

Of course the current prison system in the US is pretty much crap so making reasoned arguments is kind of like talking philosophy with a wolverine.

Quote from: Benoist;435625LEGOs are toys you play with. They can be used with therapeutic aims nonetheless.

Got any citations to go with that? Any psychologists or psychiatrists saying they use Lego therapy to treat their patients?

Legos might be used in conjunction with therapy, but they themselves are not a form of therapy. They are not the sine qua non of the therapy.

Same thing with D&D.

Seanchai

Quote from: Seanchai;435638Legos might be used in conjunction with therapy, but they themselves are not a form of therapy.

Which is not what I said. I said they could be used with therapeutic aims, which is just another way of saying what you're saying. Whether we're talking about concentration, spacial skills, coordination etc LEGOs can be used as part of the therapy. Same thing with role playing games - and no, I don't mean JL Moreno's applications of role playing necessarily, no. I'm speaking of bog standard RPGs, like D&D or whatnot.

Quote from: brettmb;435629Maybe in therapy, but not in prison.

Because you can't have therapy in prison?

Quote from: Benoist;435642Because you can't have therapy in prison?

In a controlled environment, sure. Not in a prison cell, surrounded by other prisoners.

Quote from: brettmb;435644In a controlled environment, sure. Not in a prison cell, surrounded by other prisoners.

I agree.

Is it just me, or the article refers to D&D as a "board game"?

Several times?

O wait... it's Fox News.

Quote from: Benoist;435650I agree.

I wouldn't.  There are all kinds of group therapy sessions going on in prisons around the country.

To expand a bit on IceBlinkLuck, the primary behavioural issue that lands most people in jail is impulse control.  Specifically, the lack thereof.  If the singular result of these people playing D&D behind bars is that they talk to a fellow inmate about an interpersonal issue instead of putting a shiv between their ribs, then epic fucking win.  If for no other reason, that is why the correctional staff should be hosting D&D sessions instead of trying to prevent the inmates from playing.  What safer way is there to learn that running into a room and trying to stab everyone in the face is a really bad idea?

Quote from: The Butcher;435656Is it just me, or the article refers to D&D as a "board game"?

Several times?

O wait... it's Fox News.

It is pretty easy to mistake 4e for a board game, especially if you don't know what the people are doing. Did you expect anyone in the American media that doesn't game to actually get it right?

Quote from: Benoist;435641Which is not what I said. I said they could be used with therapeutic aims, which is just another way of saying what you're saying.

Mea culpa. I misunderstood.

Seanchai

Quote from: StormBringer;435671I wouldn't.  There are all kinds of group therapy sessions going on in prisons around the country.

You misunderstood.

I agree with Brett, that for role playing games to be beneficial in terms of rehabilitation, they'd have to be used in a controlled environment within the prison, as part of a program designed to help the inmates with some aspects of say, socialization, cooperation, whatnot. They could not have rehabilitation effects if just left as an entertainment for inmates in their cells, and indeed, this might actually have a reverse effect on them, in which they create a group dynamic that exists outside of the boundaries of prison environment, which could provide a kind of escapism that would ultimately damage their chances at rehabilitation, instead of helping them with it.

Just an interesting tidbit: This story was on the radio this morning (BJ Shay, who apparently is a gamer, or was...).

The GM was a lifelong GM in 'real life' until he killed his sister's boyfriend, and is now a lifer in prison.

The radio guys did find the idea of preventing D&D in prison laughable, but then again, they found the idea of a gamer being a hardened murderer somewhat laughable as well.

Quote from: Benoist;435834You misunderstood.

I agree with Brett, that for role playing games to be beneficial in terms of rehabilitation, they'd have to be used in a controlled environment within the prison, as part of a program designed to help the inmates with some aspects of say, socialization, cooperation, whatnot. They could not have rehabilitation effects if just left as an entertainment for inmates in their cells, and indeed, this might actually have a reverse effect on them, in which they create a group dynamic that exists outside of the boundaries of prison environment, which could provide a kind of escapism that would ultimately damage their chances at rehabilitation, instead of helping them with it.

We will have to disagree, then.  Simply learning to co-operate and resolve differences non-violently is a huge advance for most inmates.  They don't need a psychologist around to direct them towards that.  I don't think there is any way to really separate the learning inherent to RPGs from the enjoyment, which is why they are so valuable, especially in this instance.

Quote from: StormBringer;435863We will have to disagree, then.  Simply learning to co-operate and resolve differences non-violently is a huge advance for most inmates.  They don't need a psychologist around to direct them towards that.  I don't think there is any way to really separate the learning inherent to RPGs from the enjoyment, which is why they are so valuable, especially in this instance.

That's wishful thinking, but not at all grounded in reality.

Quote from: The Butcher;435656Is it just me, or the article refers to D&D as a "board game"?

Several times?

O wait... it's Fox News.

That slam was not needed.

 If it was presented in the court room as a 'board game' - then thats how ANY news source will report it.
Also if you look at the end of the article D&D gamers are referred to as role-players. - Ed C.