Quote from: Benoist;414213No math beats simple math.

Simple math beats cross-referencing.

Advantage THAC0.

Doubleplus win advantage = ascending AC. BID.

Quote from: Cole;414227I would like a first one at this point, of course, the wine store being closed. among the forest of empties on the counter is the zacagnini montepulciano 2006 which in place of a chianti i bought, like a rube because there's a stick tied to it, but man that turned out to be a nice fucking wine for the money.

Noted wine critic and former Brand Nubian ("Punks Jump Up to Get Beat Down") member Sadat X agrees with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5NaAkAv7k

Quote from: Calithena;414309Noted wine critic and former Brand Nubian ("Punks Jump Up to Get Beat Down") member Sadat X agrees with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5NaAkAv7k

AS would I.

More bombastic opinion follows.

Re 1e-3e.

I agree with Melan that 3e can be just as deadly in the hands of a GM who tries just a little bit. I about dropped a load when I saw how nasty 3e dragons were. None of this namby-pamby subduing crap.

While new level draining doesn't bother me (and there were variant rules for nerfing it in 1e--see Lords of Darkness), I was really like "oh sigh" when I saw the "kinder gentler rust monster".

But the one major 1e grognard complaint that I really feel has merit is the whole "magic item economy" thing. Hinging on just one stupid little sentence in the DMG, many came to the conclusion that it's open season for magic items at the local bazaar. Now magic items are part of the character build, and a "standard load out" of magic items came from it.

This led to late 3e era threads ranting about how Mordenkainen's Disjunction was the "unfairest of them all" and that a DM could do "millions of GP of magic item damage. :banghead:

And 4e's answer to the 3e magic item debacle? Keep the magic items in the build (even going so far as to put them in the PHB), just make them suck.

FORTUNATELY, one result of my extended years running 1e taught me, it was to make it my game (another attitude that a minor edit to the 3.5 DMG apparently sought to alter. BID.) Wights can be as deadly or namby pamby as you want. Dragons can be as deadly or namby pamby as you want. I kicked the idea of "open season on magic items at the bazaar" out the door, and wouldn't you know it, my 3e game didn't experience 90% of the horror stories I hear on internet forums about 3e.

Quote from: thedungeondelver;414307Wait - you mean a Pennaallgaan?

Thanks, I couldnt think of it. The one in the book is way to of.

Quote from: Calithena;414309Noted wine critic and former Brand Nubian ("Punks Jump Up to Get Beat Down") member Sadat X agrees with you:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL5NaAkAv7k

Haha, I now like this wine 500% more

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;414308Simple math beats cross-referencing.

Depends on people. Some people have a brain wired for simple math. Others for cross-referencing on a visual table. Or as I put it yesterday, sometimes, just like a picture is worth a thousand words, a single table is worth a thousand mental operations.

Advantage: the way your brain is wired.

Quote from: Benoist;414326Depends on people. Some people have a brain wired for simple math. Others for cross-referencing on a visual table. Or as I put it yesterday, sometimes, just like a picture is worth a thousand words, a single table is worth a thousand mental operations.

Advantage: the way your brain is wired.

Sure; that was an "AFAIAC" post. And of the two I posted, not the post I was hoping would draw a response.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;414330Sure; that was an "AFAIAC" post. And of the two I posted, not the post I was hoping would draw a response.

I hadn't seen your second post before I answered that one, to tell you the truth.

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;414313But the one major 1e grognard complaint that I really feel has merit is the whole "magic item economy" thing. Hinging on just one stupid little sentence in the DMG, many came to the conclusion that it's open season for magic items at the local bazaar. Now magic items are part of the character build, and a "standard load out" of magic items came from it.

This led to late 3e era threads ranting about how Mordenkainen's Disjunction was the "unfairest of them all" and that a DM could do "millions of GP of magic item damage. :banghead:

This is the CULTURE of balance, though, and not the system. AD&D had severe Gold-Level Interdependencies, only that you could not do too much with the humungous amounts of gold, except for strategic gameplay which is at odds with the "eternally Loner S&S"-style many do like.

Again, I do not have problems with the 3.5 economy. Apart from the stupid "wish" economy, there's some very servicable extrapolations of how such a D&D magic item economy would look like in some of Trollman's writings as well as the wonderful (WONDERFUL) Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. I stick to MMS:WE and have never encountered a Problem. In short: Every higher priced Magic Item has been crafted for SOMEONE: Most are in the hands of large organizations and/or adventurers/villains. The REAL change I DO concede to 1e fans are the magic item creation rules. If you have enough Gold AND TIME you will get what you want.
But this is an amount of predictable effort that is more fair than the "fuck you" /"nagnaggimmepleaseamonsterwiththeitemIneednagnag" routine that many have experienced in former editions. Also: "fuck you" time restrictions are perfectly viable-

Only the CULTURE of balance "forces" anything re: magic items.

Quote from: Settembrini;414354This is the CULTURE of balance

I agree, since I really like 3rd ed and ED&D, but want to have no part in that culture. It's VERY easy to mix up to the two, particularly when the game company that produces the game gives in to such culture to make a buck.

(I would just like to point out that Benoist and Melan have quit saying 3e is like 1e so I win)

Quote from: Caesar Slaad;414313FORTUNATELY, one result of my extended years running 1e taught me, it was to make it my game (another attitude that a minor edit to the 3.5 DMG apparently sought to alter. BID.)

Well, paint me naive but this is what I supposed I had to do since way back, in 1984, when I started. If you want to play a "LordoftheRingseresque" campaign with D&D you make magic items scarce, but, in turn you throw the most powerful of them all in the lap of the least powerful character ever.

Fightning a 10th level monster with a 10th level character armed with a 10th level sword is only grind. It's when you throw a Balrog on the top of a 1st level party "just to see what happens" that gaming becomes interesting.

(On a related note, I'm now going to have to hunt down a bottle of Zaccagnini Montepulciano 2006.)

I always enjoy a good discussion about food. But oysters and Zaccagnini Montepulciano, really? I don't doubt the wine's quality for a minute, but wouldn't a dry white wine do a better job with them?