Quote from: Shazbot79;397189So if game stores don't get their books directly from WotC, is it possible that the entire stock of first and second run PHB's have been sold to Diamond and the third runs are backstock taking up space in WoTC warehouses?

The WotC catalogs have some vague information about ordering:

http://www.randomhouse.biz/international/PDFs/wotcspr11.pdf

I'm still not entirely sure what the procedure is to order direct from WotC or Random House (WotC's distributor in the book trade business).

Whatever happened to the third printings of the 4E PHB1, is anybody's guess at this point.  (This is assuming a third printing was actually done to begin with).

Quote from: ggroy;397186Wonder if the anti-trust people at the DOJ have looked into Diamond/Alliance over the last decade.

Apparently nobody cares because the market is so miniscule and the aggrieved parties don't even remotely have the cash to try to fight them.

Quote from: ggroy;397186Wonder if the anti-trust people at the DOJ have looked into Diamond/Alliance over the last decade.

I seem to recall there was a potential competitor that tried and failed to challenge them through the DOJ, affiliated with a comic company that also went out of business.  I think they were out of Florida? It was many years ago.

There is also Fat Jack's, Global Hobo, Haven Distributors, and Last Gasp.  But they are all small.

I know that Hachette does some distribution for Marvel, and Random House does some for DC, so there is that at least.  Some speculate that, with Disney buying Marvel and owning their own book distributors, they may fold Marvel's distribution into that outlet eventually.

Who else can chip away at Diamond/Alliance, besides amazon?

Over the years I've noticed the number one complaint of many gaming store owners/managers, is amazon.  They're just not able to compete with the discounts that amazon can offer.  People end up buying the 4E D&D books from amazon with a 34% discount off MSRP (or more), instead of buying at gaming stores.

They don't seem to complain about Diamond/Alliance as much, but there is the occasional grumbling about them.

For perspective, I went through the 3E PHB to determine whether the different printings have any additional errata incorporated.  (I have the second, third, and fourth printings of the 3E PHB).

Using the 3E PHB "rules corrections" and "clarifications" documents:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/er/20040125a

I've come to the conclusion that the second printing of the 3E PHB had the errata corrections incorporated into the text, but the subsequent printings (ie. third and fourth printings) appear to be just straight copies of the second printing with no additional errata corrections added in.

For example, the "Shocking Grasp" errata for page 251 was not incorporated at all into any of the second, third, or fourth printings of the 3E PHB.  (The errata states that for "Shocking Grasp", the Duration line of "Permanent until discharged" should be replaced with "Permanent until dispelled").  Most likely this page 251 errata was discovered and corrected after the second printing of 3E PHB was already done (ie. after November 2000).  The 3E PHB "rules corrections" and "clarification" documents, both had a date of August 21, 2001.

I have followed this thread and some of the other similar threads that ggroy started on other sites, but until last night I couldn't be bothered to look and see when my own books were printed.  It would seem that my PHB1 is from the third print run.  The backward numbers in the lower left-hand corner of page 2 end at 3.  Right below that is says "First Printing: June 2008."

I bought my PHB in late January of '09 at the Source in the Twin Cities area.  It's a huge store.

One other thing: there was some talk about 4e Amazon sales a ways back in this thread.  I remember that when the core book set was #2 on the sales list, #1 was held by Dick Morris' absurdly titled Fleeced: How Barack Obama, Media Mockery of Terrorist Threats, Liberals Who Want to Kill Talk Radio, the Do-Nothing Congress, Companies That Help Iran, and Washington Lobbyists for Foreign Governments Are Scamming Us ... and What to Do About It.  According to this article on the sales of anti-Barak Obama books from 8/5/08, Fleeced had 210,000 copies in print total around that time.  Unfortunately they don't associate an exact date with that number.  Not much information, but it's something.  

I have read that when books of a political nature come out, ideological supporters sometimes buy up large numbers of copies to generate impressive sales figures and buzz, and that they sell them back at cost later.  In this case the Morris book didn't come out until June 24, so one might speculate that there were a lot of pre-orders but that a large quantity of them were cancelled before 6/24.  If, that is, people were indeed trying to skew the Amazon rankings that way.  I am also assuming you can just pre-order and cancel like that, I don't really know.

I have also read that June is typically a slow time of year for book sales.

Quote from: The Defenestrator;398003I have followed this thread and some of the other similar threads that ggroy started on other sites, but until last night I couldn't be bothered to look and see when my own books were printed.  It would seem that my PHB1 is from the third print run.  The backward numbers in the lower left-hand corner of page 2 end at 3.  Right below that is says "First Printing: June 2008."

I bought my PHB in late January of '09 at the Source in the Twin Cities area.  It's a huge store.

Interesting.  Thanks for the update.

I have another question, if you don't mind me asking.  Does the third printing PHB1 have any errata corrections included?  The obvious stuff would be the updated stealth rules, the wizard's "dispel magic" being change from a daily to encounter power, etc ...

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/UpdatePH.pdf

Wonder how many copies of the third printing PHB1 are already out in the market (ie. game stores, bookstores, etc ...) and/or bought by people, and how many are still stuck in a warehouse.  So far I haven't seen a copy of the third printing PHB1 yet.

Quote from: ggroy;398061I have another question, if you don't mind me asking.  Does the third printing PHB1 have any errata corrections included?  

I'd be very surprised if it did.

Seanchai

I'd be flat out stunned, never heard of any 4e books that have been fixed with any errata.

Dropped by a nearby bigbox bookstore earlier today.

They actually had a third printing of the 4E PHB1 in stock.  (The last time I was there, they had a second printing and several first printing copies of the 4E PHB1).

Looking through this third printing 4E PHB1, it's the same story.  No obvious errata corrections added in.  (ie. Stealth, etc ...).  It even still has the old "Gleemax" ad on the very last page of the book.

There was still a second printing 4E DMG1 book on the shelf.  This copy also still had the old "Gleemax" ad on the very last page of the book.

There was still a third printing 4E PHB2 book on the shelf.  This copy had the same ad on the very last page as the first printing of 4E PHB2.

Without going through these books line by line in exhaustive detail, the last pages with the old ads suggests these subsequent printings may very well be just straight reprints.  They didn't even bother updating the old "Gleemax" ad.  One would think the first thing they would change is the ad, to something more recent.

Quote from: ggroy;401523One would think the first thing they would change is the ad, to something more recent.

Generally, you have to pay less for a reprint.

Seanchai

Generally, you would need a reason for a reprint.

With 1st and 2nd printings still on the shelf, and with the book being horribly outdated, reprinting it without any changes - to me, again - smacks of a crass money-grab.

"Keep those old, incorrect books on the shelf, who cares if they're wrong. Once they drop $35 in our pocket, they'll just jump online and use DDI anyway."

We don't know when exactly these second and third printings were done.

In principle they could have been sitting in WotC's warehouse for over a year or longer.