Quote from: JollyRB;3742165e will become self-aware and run itself.

It wouldn't be too surprising if they made 5e to work without a dm.

Watch them eliminate variable weapon/power damage, and replace it with constant fixed damage numbers per weapon/power for 5E D&D.

Then they will stretch 4E's levels 1-30, into something like levels 1 -> 100 (or 1 -> 1000) for 5E D&D.

To eliminate the 15 minute gaming day, why not convert all 4E daily powers into 5E encounter powers and convert all 4E encounter powers into 5E at-wills.  (ie.  Essentially eliminating daily powers altogether).

Quote from: Joethelawyer;374155I'm really curious what 5e will be like.

One part is easy. Look at what the 4e gamers are complaining about as far as the system goes. For example 3.5e it was generally acknowledged that high level combat was difficult to run.

The second part isn't easy. You need to find out who is in charge of designing 5e look at their past work and try to figure out what their interests are.

For each of the major editions of D&D these two elements combined to produce what we saw. From AD&D 1st to D&D 4e.

For example for AD&D 1st, the complaint was all the house rules needed to show which of the options in OD&D are being used and to just to make some of the existing rules more understandable. This combined with Gary Gygax interest to combine to form the edition we got in AD&D 1st.

For AD&D 2nd, was a combination of the complaints about the combat system in the DMG, some character classes, and others. Combined with the mandates handed down by management producted AD&D 2nd.

And this went on for each of the different editions and will be the case for D&D 5e.

Quote from: GoOrange;374223I wonder what the overall profitability of 4e has been compared to 3e. I'd guess that book sales are down quite a bit. DDI subscriptions likely are bringing in quite a bit of revenue. How WotC approaches the publishing model will affect the game itself.

Interesting concept.  If they do push in that direction, I would predict the whole game will be as on-line as possible.  Snippets you can download to your PC, laptop, iPhone or iPad, or some other electronic reader.  Stuff like general combat rules, maybe, or guidelines for the DM.

All the other rules will be largely self contained and printed out along with the character sheet or monster sheet from the online application.  So, even more like M:tG like Shaman suggested.  Which is actually a brilliant move on several levels, but it entirely depends on keeping people on the subscription service.

Quote from: StormBringer;374274Interesting concept.  If they do push in that direction, I would predict the whole game will be as on-line as possible.  Snippets you can download to your PC, laptop, iPhone or iPad, or some other electronic reader.  Stuff like general combat rules, maybe, or guidelines for the DM.

All the other rules will be largely self contained and printed out along with the character sheet or monster sheet from the online application.  So, even more like M:tG like Shaman suggested.  Which is actually a brilliant move on several levels, but it entirely depends on keeping people on the subscription service.

I think that they will probably do some of this; however, I think they will still publish a shit ton of books, because as Charles Dickens taught us- it's okay to sell something to somebody once, but it's waaay better to sell the same thing to the same person three or four times.

Quote from: Aos;374284I think that they will probably do some of this; however, I think they will still publish a shit ton of books, because as Charles Dickens taught us- it's okay to sell something to somebody once, but it's waaay better to sell the same thing to the same person three or four times.

Good point.  Of course, an ongoing subscription is like selling them the same thing a dozen times a year.  Dickens would have been ecstatic.  Not Charles Dikkens, though, the famous Dutch authour.

Quote from: One Horse Town;374157Roast beef.

Oh, that reminds me, local Arby's franchises have their Arby-Q barbeque roast beef sandwiches out again. I need to go get some for dinner.

Quote from: StormBringer;374285Good point.  Of course, an ongoing subscription is like selling them the same thing a dozen times a year.  Dickens would have been ecstatic.  Not Charles Dikkens, though, the famous Dutch authour.

True, but books are a tangible investment- and a fetish item for gamers. There are many reasons to dislike 4e, but no one can deny a significant thread in the initial negativity towards it came from gamers who were pissed because they had so many 3.X books- and would be unable to get any more.
The desire for more fresh print product is what led to the creation of old school retroclones.
People get invested in a game line. Books are the physical anchor of that investment. Beyond that, if you get pissed off about an online game, all you have to do is cancel your sub and you're all done. Books, however, are still there, and unless you expend the effort to unload them, there is always the chance you'll pick one up one day and forget what it was that hacked you off so bad in the first place. Bang, you're back in. Maybe you renew your online sub the month after that.
And then there are the completists...
Books are the win, really.

Quote from: Aos;374302True, but books are a tangible investment- and a fetish item for gamers. There are many reasons to dislike 4e, but no one can deny a significant thread in the initial negativity towards it came from gamers who were pissed because they had so many 3.X books- and would be unable to get any more.
The desire for more fresh print product is what led to the creation of old school retroclones.
People get invested in a game line. Books are the physical anchor of that investment. Beyond that, if you get pissed off about an online game, all you have to do is cancel your sub and you're all done. Books, however, are still there, and unless you expend the effort to unload them, there is always the chance you'll pick one up one day and forget what it was that hacked you off so bad in the first place. Bang, you're back in. Maybe you renew your online sub the month after that.
And then there are the completists...
Books are the win, really.

Interesting points.  How do you think that applies to e-books?  Similar investment, but the unloading part is easier?

Quote from: Aos;374302True, but books are a tangible investment- and a fetish item for gamers. There are many reasons to dislike 4e, but no one can deny a significant thread in the initial negativity towards it came from gamers who were pissed because they had so many 3.X books- and would be unable to get any more.
The desire for more fresh print product is what led to the creation of old school retroclones.
People get invested in a game line. Books are the physical anchor of that investment. Beyond that, if you get pissed off about an online game, all you have to do is cancel your sub and you're all done. Books, however, are still there, and unless you expend the effort to unload them, there is always the chance you'll pick one up one day and forget what it was that hacked you off so bad in the first place. Bang, you're back in. Maybe you renew your online sub the month after that.
And then there are the completists...
Books are the win, really.

Subscription model, and premium Print-On-Demand services on the side, then?

Quote from: StormBringer;374308Interesting points.  How do you think that applies to e-books?  Similar investment, but the unloading part is easier?

It remains to be seen, I think. I'll throw one confounding and completely unrelated fact out there. Money buys food. Humans are great about sharing food. Humans are less great about sharing money. Is it the increased utility of money, the fact that you can do more than just buy food with it that makes people reluctant to share? Is it the abstract nature of money? Who fucking knows?
E-books are closer to being real books than money is to being food. Maybe?
How will we feel about them when they are ubiquitous? Fucked if I know.

Quote from: Benoist;374310Subscription model, and premium Print-On-Demand servives on the side, then?

Who knows where its all going? Not me, I'm a fucking idiot. It will be fun to see.

"Servives". I fucking hate typos.

Quote from: Benoist;374310Subscription model, and premium Print-On-Demand services on the side, then?

*Shudders* Never thought tabletops games will end up that way. More profitable for the company, yes, but dangerous. It is practically going against MMOs face to face.

Also marketing is an issue. Book-less D&D won't have a strong presence in gameshops and other rpgs will take over easily.