I don't like or read web comics for the most part - and I've heard of Penny Aracade.  (Even seen a few of them from time to time)


- Ed C.

I've got to agree with J even if he is being a spergelord over it.

For the Internet, Penny Arcade is HUGE.  

Is this gonna lead to massive sales and site hits?  Probably not as most people in fact do NOT want to know more.  About anything.  Its what keeps corporations and politicians in power after all.

But it should lead to MORE PEOPLE which can only be a good thing.

Now this is the Internet so saying nobody knows about PA is kind of bullshit.  Most people don't know much about the Internet.

I have played with ONE person who ever read or even knew of RPGnet before I mentioned it to them, and those I did tell still don't give a shit.  And I have played a lot of people over the years.

(Its why Pundy's fear of a Forge planet is unjustified.  Nobody in the world at large gives a shit what idiots online do unless its connected to Farmville.)

Look at how popular something might be online, then how it is in the real world.  They usually don't intersect at all.

After reading a lot of the comments on the blogosphere, I think it's kind of funny how some people are getting annoyed/offended by some of the wording in Gabe's post, as if he's passing a judgment on something he doesn't understand, while at the same time passing judgment about Penny-Arcade (and the people behind it), which is something a lot of old grognards don't understand.

I mean, once you see something like "well they both started with 4e", you know you're not going to get any real discourse, because they don't know the background behind the people (and their gaming habits) writing these things.  There's no context -- it's just a big disconnect.

I don't know shit about PA.  Until the other day, I've never been to their site.  All I ever heard about them was that Wesley Crusher plays D&D with them or something, so I thought they were a publicity arm of WOTC.  

That being said, the fact that they are huge and can give exposure to S&W is great.  I don't have any problem with how the exposure comes.  

The thing that struck me as odd/wrong, was that he obviously wanted to give an old school OD&D experience to his group, and he knew danger and freedom were part of it. He knew that because he explicitly states that he removed those elements from the game.  Yet he still feels his did his group a good service by showing them a game that he classified as OD&D, even though he knew he removed 2 main OD&D elements from it?

I feel bad for the guys he played with, thinking they got to each chocolate cake when it was really vanilla.

It seems to me that the fact that Gabe felt he had to soften up an OSR/OD&D game for a bunch of candyassed 4e'ers tells me that he knows more about old-school gaming that many are willing to admit...

(this is a winky-smiley post...)

Joethelawyer, I've got the National Vanilla Council on line 1 for you.  Something about their product being a legitimate flavor alternative.

Anyway, I asked Matt Finch is S&W.com had any more traffic since Wednesday and he said he's got roughly triple his usual daily hits.  I call that a win.

By softened, I think he meant "You're not going to lose a character or gear", and the reason for this is pretty solid -- he wanted to give them exposure to "how it could be" without derailing the 4e campaign, since this was a one-shot.  Just as he said -- similar to a war reenactment.  You can see what it was like, even if you're not experiencing it "firsthand."

If he had been running a campaign, I could see the reasoning behind criticizing his attempts at emulating "old-school", but this was just a one-shot, for fun, experiment that was intended to have no long-term consequences on his 4e campaign.

Really, in a way, he wasn't trying to so much play OD&D straight as he was using it was a starting point for his own idea of a fun evening.

Quote from: StormBringer;372593On the other hand, if they were to make role playing sessions a bit more prominent in the strip itself, I wouldn't be as neutral about the mention.

Missed this the first go around.

They have, in the past, made it the prime subject.  There was a 1-2 week long continuity where it covered Gabe's transformation into an RPG player, and again another week-long strip about him starting out as a DM, all accompanied by relevant blog-posts.

They also link to Wizards anytime they do anything with WotC/4e (which is usually accompanied by one of their D&D themed comics), and Mike likes to post about his campaign once in a while, complete with pictures of sessions and an outline of how he executed his ideas.

In the past these things weren't very prominent, and the only mention of tabletop you'd get is if Jerry was talking about Baldur's Gate or something, but since Mike took up DMing, tabletop has become a very visible side-dish for the whole of PA.

Quote from: jrients;372700Joethelawyer, I've got the National Vanilla Council on line 1 for you.  Something about their product being a legitimate flavor alternative.

Anyway, I asked Matt Finch is S&W.com had any more traffic since Wednesday and he said he's got roughly triple his usual daily hits.  I call that a win.

It's a damn good start.  Did he track them back to PA exclusively?  If  folks are reading re-posts from other pages, it might be a good idea to hit those sites and talk it up if at all possible.  

Quote from: Peregrin;372722In the past these things weren't very prominent, and the only mention of tabletop you'd get is if Jerry was talking about Baldur's Gate or something, but since Mike took up DMing, tabletop has become a very visible side-dish for the whole of PA.

I think that will probably do more to generate interest in role playing than a single mention of a specific game, but it's good to hear it has increased the traffic for S&W.

Quote from: Nicephorus;372649That's how I read it.  He made uninformed contact with a set of rules and shaped it to his liking without worrying about what was the true way.  In many ways, he was replicating the experience of thousands of groups in the 70s who did not have a body of gaming knowledge to draw upon.

It's sort of more old school than those who try to make OSR into historical reenactment of the 70s.

Fucking word, man.

He doesn't owe anything to anyone, let alone to some ideological purity or party line about what a handful of fucking bloggers and forumites claim the 70s were "really" about.

He's got a set of rules in front of him, that he's gleefully done whatever he likes with to make it fun for his group.

How the fuck do any of you OSR people in this thread know that there weren't others that played this way?  The dreaded "story" focus in gaming didn't rise out of nothing, for instance, yet don't you dare mention it might've occurred in D&D ever, unless it was in the evil 2e.

A dude found the game, and decided to have some fun with it, and then posted about it on his really popular website.  If that happened with a game I liked enough to want to see succeed, I'd be ecstatic.  

Instead it's all about how "Oh, but that site isn't that relevant, I've never read it" and "He's not playing it right".  Playing it right according to whom?  Some amateur pundit with a "primer" declaring what is and isn't old school?  The jackass who wrote that hopelessly presumptuous "how to play old school" thing in the new S&W white box?  

Yet again, you people, and by people I mean every one of you in this fucking thread who's knocked his game, James M. and the rest of the bloggers who're going after it, the smartass comments from the people in the RPG Haven thread I was reading earlier, all of you, have fucking proved that the "OSR" is once again all about some invented vision of ideological purity, and has fucking nothing to do with gaming or enjoying games.

I would like to personally request from now on, that the "OSR" be given the same status as "The Forge", because it's not a fucking RPG, it's a fucking religion.

Quote from: J Arcane;372729Fucking word, man.

He doesn't owe anything to anyone, let alone to some ideological purity or party line about what a handful of fucking bloggers and forumites claim the 70s were "really" about.

He's got a set of rules in front of him, that he's gleefully done whatever he likes with to make it fun for his group.

How the fuck do any of you OSR people in this thread know that there weren't others that played this way?  The dreaded "story" focus in gaming didn't rise out of nothing, for instance, yet don't you dare mention it might've occurred in D&D ever, unless it was in the evil 2e.

A dude found the game, and decided to have some fun with it, and then posted about it on his really popular website.  If that happened with a game I liked enough to want to see succeed, I'd be ecstatic.  

Instead it's all about how "Oh, but that site isn't that relevant, I've never read it" and "He's not playing it right".  Playing it right according to whom?  Some amateur pundit with a "primer" declaring what is and isn't old school?  The jackass who wrote that hopelessly presumptuous "how to play old school" thing in the new S&W white box?  

Yet again, you people, and by people I mean every one of you in this fucking thread who's knocked his game, James M. and the rest of the bloggers who're going after it, the smartass comments from the people in the RPG Haven thread I was reading earlier, all of you, have fucking proved that the "OSR" is once again all about some invented vision of ideological purity, and has fucking nothing to do with gaming or enjoying games.

I would like to personally request from now on, that the "OSR" be given the same status as "The Forge", because it's not a fucking RPG, it's a fucking religion.

In all fairness, J, there were several of us who play the OS games that agreed with you. If you read the Haven thread you also know I agree with your assessment of the "Primer."

Quote from: J Arcane;372729Yet again, you people, and by people I mean every one of you in this fucking thread who's knocked his game, James M. and the rest of the bloggers who're going after it, the smartass comments from the people in the RPG Haven thread I was reading earlier, all of you, have fucking proved that the "OSR" is once again all about some invented vision of ideological purity, and has fucking nothing to do with gaming or enjoying games.

Then I guess you proved the point you set out to as the sole reason for starting this thread.  Except, you had to drag in half the internet to do so.  Next time, just start an "OSR sucks" thread and be done with it.

Quote from: StormBringer;372731Then I guess you proved the point you set out to as the sole reason for starting this thread.  Except, you had to drag in half the internet to do so.  Next time, just start an "OSR sucks" thread and be done with it.

Actually, it wasn't the point I created this thread with.  I honestly and completely expected people to be pleasantly surprised about the thing, to be happy with the exposure.  

I personally thought it was a neat post, as while I'm not especially a fan of OD&D, I always think it's neat when Gabe or Tycho throws a nod to a more old school approach.  The contrast between the young turk Gabe's forays into learnign RPGs with Tycho's hardcore old school roots has led to some fascinating conversations and really funny strips in the past.  I've personally posted some of Tycho's previous posts talking about the clash between his old school sentiments and 4e's attempted new wave.

I really, truly, honestly swear in my heart of hearts that I had no intentions other than posting a thing that I thought neat, and honestly was surprised by the hostility towards his post.  I just saw it on Evotab and thought, "Hey, I bet theRPGsite would like this."

I shouldn't have, but I did expect better.

Quote from: J Arcane;372729Yet again, you people, and by people I mean every one of you in this fucking thread who's knocked his game, James M. and the rest of the bloggers who're going after it, the smartass comments from the people in the RPG Haven thread I was reading earlier, all of you, have fucking proved that the "OSR" is once again all about some invented vision of ideological purity, and has fucking nothing to do with gaming or enjoying games.

I would like to personally request from now on, that the "OSR" be given the same status as "The Forge", because it's not a fucking RPG, it's a fucking religion.

I'm now absolutely convinced you want to get offended. You want to find something objectionable with the OSR, for whatever twisted reason you came up with ages ago when we first discussed vintage games here on these boards. Maybe because someone, anyone, disagreed with you as you were pissing all over someone else's opinion. You pounce, you pounce, and then finally, when someone tells you to fuck off, and you're not having your way, you're going all crazy on people.

Get a grip on yourself, man. This is fucking ridiculous.

Quote from: Aos;372730In all fairness, J, there were several of us who play the OS games that agreed with you. If you read the Haven thread you also know I agree with your assessment of the "Primer."

Yes, I did see that you were quite down on the attitude.  At least there's someone still about who isn't a complete pillock.

The very idea of a special book to tell people how to play a particular game is ridiculous.  That's Forge-talk right there, and yet almost no one sees the irony.

This site was created in it's present form in large part to make a space where such dogmatic bullshit wouldn't be tolerated or accepted.  

Instead, it just changed brands sometime in the past year or so.