Quote from: Sigmund;372632Completely clueless. If he really wanted the "Old School" feel, he wouldn't have had Teri Garr, he would have had the poster of Farah Fawcett... ya'all know the one I mean... ya know ya do.

That's all true. But you can't tell me there's anything wrong with a picture of Terri Garr.

I don't read the site much, mainly when it's been linked from an RPG site. I had no idea it was much of a big deal. But I'll bet the exposure will generate some interest and sales for S&W, and for OSR stuff in general, even if the initial motivation of the clickers is museum-curiosity.

Sorry to his fans defending him, but Gabe was clueless. If he really wanted to bring across an Old School feel to his side game, then he could have contacted any number of gamers that he has met at PAX or online and asked that person to DM a 0D&D session for his group (think about it, even Old Geezer would probably agree to do this if asked politely). Instead he took S&W and 0D&D, kitbashed them together and created what to Gabe was an Old School gaming experience for his group. Which, to me makes about as much sense as a high school freshman declaring that they fully understand the experience of Holocaust survivors just because they read The Diary of Anne Frank.

Because Gabe didn't use a retroclone or actual Old School game, he used what he thought best represented one (which he created). Garbage in, garbage out.

Isn't kitbashing your own rules to suit your group exactly what the OSR is supposedly all about?

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;372641That's all true. But you can't tell me there's anything wrong with a picture of Terri Garr.

I don't read the site much, mainly when it's been linked from an RPG site. I had no idea it was much of a big deal. But I'll bet the exposure will generate some interest and sales for S&W, and for OSR stuff in general, even if the initial motivation of the clickers is museum-curiosity.

Nope, nothing wrong with pictures of Teri Garr at all... they're just not "Old School". It's in the membership requirements. To be '70s era Old School one must have a troll doll, a poster of Farah Fawcett, bell-bottoms, a record player, and something depicting Evil Knievel.

Quote from: J Arcane;372644Isn't kitbashing your own rules to suit your group exactly what the OSR is supposedly all about?

Quote from: Gabe's Own Words from Your LinkEach of you has also been taken back to 1974 and Original Dungeons and Dragons.

Ancient mechanics for an ancient world.

Before you quit D&D forver let me tell you that we won't be using Original D&D exactly. Rather I've cooked up a system using original D&D systems along with some new ideas as well. The goal is to play a game with the soul of Original D&D, but significantly more humane to the player.

The model here is really Disney Land. Immagine yourself in adventure land near one of their western saloons. The facade is there, the details are right, it could almost pass for the real thing. But inside it is air conditioned and you can buy a Dr. Pepper. If they had a ride there called Original D&D, this would be it. The idea is to have a lot of fun without anyone getting hurt.

After a lot of research I ended up settling on a system called Swords and Wizardry. As a set of rules it draws heavily on OD&D but includes things like an ascending AC scale rather than THACO. I pulled what I liked from Swords and Wizardry and then grabbed a few things from OD&D as well. The end result was much like what I described in my email to the party. A sort of OD&D roller-coaster with all the twists and turns of old school gaming but minus the freedom and danger.

During the game I used the television behind me to display a slideshow of old artwork from the history of D&D. My players all started D&D with 4e like I did. This game was really about taking a look back and appreciating the roots of Dungeons and Dragons.

This wasn't a 0D&D experience, this is a 4E fan's skewed image of what a 0D&D experience was supposed to be.

Quote from: J Arcane;372644Isn't kitbashing your own rules to suit your group exactly what the OSR is supposedly all about?

That's where we should just dump the term "OSR". There are just guys interested in various sorts of old school games producing stuff for them, talking about them on blogs, etc.

If there is an "aim" to the "OSR" nebula of gamers, it's to enjoy vintage games, to keep playing them, to produce stuff for them, and to introduce those who do not know them, but want to, to their goodness. That's it.

OD&D, now, in particular, is IMO all about what you're talking about. Grabbing the game, owning it, making it your own. In that sense, Gabe does whatever the fuck he wants with it. We're talking about a guy playing a game, not producing some sort of supplement for it (in which case it would rise or fall based on its own merits and popularity). If he wants to play Ping Pong with "Men & Magic" for a paddle, who am I to stop him?

Quote from: J Arcane;372644Isn't kitbashing your own rules to suit your group exactly what the OSR is supposedly all about?

That's how I read it.  He made uninformed contact with a set of rules and shaped it to his liking without worrying about what was the true way.  In many ways, he was replicating the experience of thousands of groups in the 70s who did not have a body of gaming knowledge to draw upon.

It's sort of more old school than those who try to make OSR into historical reenactment of the 70s.

Quote from: Benoist;372648If he wants to play Ping Pong with "Men & Magic" for a paddle, who am I to stop him?

He might do just that given the ping pong PA story.

Quote from: Nicephorus;372649That's how I read it.  He made uninformed contact with a set of rules and shaped it to his liking without worrying about what was the true way.  In many ways, we was replicating the experience of thousands of groups in the 70s who did not have a body of gaming knowledge to draw upon.

It's sort of more old school than those who try to make OSR into historical reenactment of the 70s.

You have sort of a point, but the caveat is, first, that he was only running this system as a novelty, not a regular game. So, second, he seems to have sought to create what he thinks the experience might have sorta been like so he actually had the goal of trying to recreate an experience he's only heard/read about, rather than just playing a game with buds. Just so everyone knows, I'm not bashing this, in fact it sounds kinda cool injecting the retro flashback into his ongoing 4e experience that way. I hope they really enjoyed it, and really, kudos to S&W for providing a group of folks an evening of "retro" fun. I really do hope this leads to a huge jump in awareness and participation. I do not, however, see him as having played the game the way we did back then. But then, really, so what? If they had fun that's all that matters in the end.

Quote from: jeff37923;372642Which, to me makes about as much sense as a high school freshman declaring that they fully understand the experience of Holocaust survivors just because they read The Diary of Anne Frank.

:duh:Oy, that's a bit overboard isn't it?

Sigmund, thank you for remembering to bring up Evel Knievel. Let's also recall sissy bars & banana seats on bicycles, and Coleco handheld Electronic Quarterback.

Quote from: jeff37923;372642Which, to me makes about as much sense as a high school freshman declaring that they fully understand the experience of Holocaust survivors just because they read The Diary of Anne Frank.

LOL Over the top much? Nice back-handed Godwin, by the way, Jeff.

Quote from: Elliot Wilen;372657:duh:Oy, that's a bit overboard isn't it?

Sigmund, thank you for remembering to bring up Evel Knievel. Let's also recall sissy bars & banana seats on bicycles, and Coleco handheld Electronic Quarterback.

Oh yes. While not strictly required for Old School membership, banana seats and Coleco football (holy crap did we used to annoy our teachers with these) will advance one towards admittance to the Inner Circle of Old Schoolness. Sissy bars, however, are just for sissies. To really be cool Old School one has to get drop bar road bikes and turn the bars upside-down so that one can sit more upright while simultaneously placing oneself in danger of serious injury, then go riding around in jeans.

Quote from: Sigmund;372632Completely clueless. If he really wanted the "Old School" feel, he wouldn't have had Teri Garr, he would have had the poster of Farah Fawcett... ya'all know the one I mean... ya know ya do.

No, he would have Cheryl Tiegs.

(Cue 70s poster icons edition war.)

Sorry guys, Penny Arcade is big, real big.  As Jrients said, their links crash websites they have so many readers.  Video and console gaming is a billion dollar industry and PA is one of the few video game sites that spends a fair amount of time talking about table-top gaming.  For them to specifically mention the OSR and Swords and Wizardry is huge.

The thing nobody really talked about in that whole Pornstar thing was that traffic on Escapist will lead to some traffic on Zak's blog, which will lead to traffic on other people's blogs.

Within a fairly short period of time, video gamers have a chance to read about this OSR thing from two different video gaming sites, two of the most popular out there.

In the 21st century, with this new-fangled thing called teh intarwebz, yes that is a very good thing indeed.

PA not a household name?  I don't know, I'd think you'd have a pretty hard fucking time finding high school or college kids who both had thumbs and didn't know what Penny Arcade was.

Quote from: Benoist;372628Really, it's awesome to get the exposure, but then again, I'm not going to touch myself over it

As long as you possess that avatar, you are forbidden from touching yourself or ever mentioning it again.