I never got around to picking up the old Fuzion powered one from Gold Rush, it always seemed kind of light in the loafers and I was never hot on Fuzion. I think I tried to order it from a sale once, but the site was broken or some nonsense like that.

Anyway, apparently there's a new Usagi game out now. I know it's a bigger book, and I know it's from the furries at Sanguine, the same guys who did the *claw series.  Alls I know about them is that they're furry games, and I seem to recall hearing they had some kind of clunky multi-dice-type pool system.

But that latter bit could be faulty memory.  

Tell me about the new Usagi?  Is the resource material good?  Does it delve well into the feudal Japan setting?  Is it overly fixated on the characters happening to be animals?  What's the system like, and does it suck?  Is it compatible with their other games, enough so that I could also grab their Albedo game and mash them together to make Space Usagi?

These are things I wish to know.  Does anyone here still know enough about games that aren't D&D to tell me any of them?

The idea of Usagi being taken over by furries hurts my soul.

Quote from: J Arcane;371810These are things I wish to know.  Does anyone here still know enough about games that aren't D&D to tell me any of them?

Sadly I don't know abut Usagi Yojimbo the RPG. I've experience with IronClaw/Jadeclaw (which are only furry in the same sense as Usagi Yojimbo is furry--that is an anthropomorphic representation of animal characters.) Otherwise IronClaw is a medieval fantasy setting with interesting magic and politics. Jadeclaw is a chinese Wuxia game set in the same world (a bit more "magic" on that side in terms of races for example adding mythic ones to the list like Dragon, and and Phoenix) the core rulebooks don't detail much beyond the hint of the setting and rules. (Supplements cover most of the setting.) I don't recall any mention of furries, sex, plushies, or any of that. It's just a pair of fantasy games with animals instead of people. (Think Disney's Robin Hood but bloodier/more violent)



I was wondering about picking it up, and/or the newer Albedo, but reading more on the new Albedo puts me of of the system. Ironclaw/Jadeclaw are about as crunchy as D&D, with multi-step dice for skills/race/etc being important.

RPGnet says it uses the same system as Ironclaw.

That does not sound promising.  I am not especially fond of Fuzion, but mostly because it just isn't anything special.  Ironclaw sounds actively unpleasant and complicated.

Also, Greg Stolze wrote the Fuzion book, and people seem to like him.  So that' be a in point in favor of getting the old book instead.

I own the Sanguine Usagi book, so I can answer the questions.  

No, it's not a "furries book" (and neither are the 'claw books).  There's no people in animal costumes yiffing or anything like that.  All of the art is by Stan Sakai.  The system is mostly compatible with 'claw, though simplified a little bit.  The basic system is that your race, career, stats, and skills are rated as dice  (So maybe you have Rabbit 1d6, Samurai 1d10, Body 1d6, and Blades 1d8.  If you are attacking with a sword, you roll each die that can be applied... Body and Blades are appropriate, and your career of Samurai fits in, but being a Rabbit does not (it might help something like a listening check or jumping.)  If your highest rolled die result beats the opponent's highest rolled die, or the DC, you succeed.  There are quite a few combat options, like counter-attack, parry, dodge, etc.  Different kinds of weapons have different special effects on a critical hit, which is nice (a blunt weapon might concuss or crush, while a slashing weapon might cleave).

There is quite a bit of source material... the first 41 pages are history, culture, and geography of feudal Japan.  The next 10 pages gives an overview of the characters, and except for a note after the name (like "Male Cat Ninja"), it doesn't focus on race at all.

I'd say the system is more complex than Fuzion, which I find boring and unremarkable, but has more options and choices once you learn it.  It really isn't too much harder (or different) than Cortex, which also has die types for stats and skills, and Savage Worlds uses a similar idea.

Sounds cool Samurai, I like the idea of the claw systems but find them a bit over my crunch hurdle as a GM, I've played in a Jadeclaw game and had fun (my dog PC used magic which I think added to the complexity.)

Quote from: Silverlion;371840Sounds cool Samurai, I like the idea of the claw systems but find them a bit over my crunch hurdle as a GM, I've played in a Jadeclaw game and had fun (my dog PC used magic which I think added to the complexity.)

It's definitely not a rules-lite game.  It's a little heavier on combat rules than my taste too, but the rules are interesting and non-combat skill tests and such are quick and easy.  One thing I'm not fond of is the Reeling rule.  Basically, any time you are hit in combat, you are sent Reeling.  That means you can't take any actions or reactions except dodge, and attackers get a bonus 1d12 to hit you.  On your turn, Recover from Reeling is a standard action, leaving only a move action that you can do.  So, it's quite possible a character could go round after round getting hit, sent reeling and lose his attack, recover, get hit and sent reeling again, etc. until the attacker finally misses you.  And if you're facing multiple opponents, it's even worse.  Luckily, there is a Gift (advantage) called Resolve which negates reeling from minor hits, and can 1 time negate it from a more serious hit.  That makes it nearly a requirement to have, IMHO, and personally, I'd give it free to any character who is trained in combat.  Otherwise, it's so important it's almost a "feat tax".  With that Gift, though, I think the system is tactically interesting and well done.

I quite enjoyed the Fuzion version. The system was light enough to stay out of the way, and the players dug the representation of the races and classes.

We played it on several occasions for one-shots and it was always a great experience. The Monsters! sourcebook was full of great scenario ideas and hooks to integrate the creatures into campaigns or make scenarios around them. There were a few web resources (official ones) like new species, new jobs, etc. that I wish had been collected somewhere in print rather than just an article for Pyramid Online or what-have-you.

I keep seeing copies of the GRG edition at Half-Price Books and mean to pick up a second copy.

I have the Sanguine copy, but the combat rules (oh, that reeling!) turned me off. I was a member of the Yahoo group for a while, and remember considerable errata showing up that made me think "Hmm..." and change my mind about adopting the new edition.

I own both versions of Usagi Yojimbo (Gold Rush Games and Sanguine Productions), I like the Gold Rush version, despite its defects, and I'm madly in love with the Sanguine version.

Quote from: J Arcane;371810Anyway, apparently there's a new Usagi game out now. I know it's a bigger book, and I know it's from the furries at Sanguine, the same guys who did the *claw series.  Alls I know about them is that they're furry games, and I seem to recall hearing they had some kind of clunky multi-dice-type pool system.

The system used in Sanguine UY is a simplification of the system used in Ironclaw/Jadeclaw. Basically, your stats and skills are measured in dice, as in Savage Worlds and Cortex, that is, you can have Body 1d8 or Swords 1d10. When you want to do something, you roll the dice you have in stat+skill+profession (professions give bonus dice to some skills) and you take the highest die, and compare it to a target number. If your roll is higher you succeed.

I'm a firm believer in roll under and roll over systems, and a detractor of die pools, because I find them clunky, but I must say that I found the die pools of SUY very intuitive and not clunky at all, for two reasons:

-A basic rule of SUY is that you NEVER add anything, ever. You roll the dice, take the highest one, and that's all, there are no +1 or -2. You just roll and compare it to the target number.

-You don't usually roll big buckets of dice. Normally you roll two dice (one for the skill and one for the stat), sometimes one when you have no skill, and sometimes three if your profession gives you a bonus die. Rolling four dice is possible but rare, and rolling five dice is pretty badass.

QuoteTell me about the new Usagi?  Is the resource material good?  Does it delve well into the feudal Japan setting?  Is it overly fixated on the characters happening to be animals?  What's the system like, and does it suck?  Is it compatible with their other games, enough so that I could also grab their Albedo game and mash them together to make Space Usagi?

The SUY corebook contains information about Feudal Japan, some history, some geography, culture and customs, etc, but in my opinion the best part is the system. Systemwise it is the best chanbara and samurai RPG, ever. Nor Legend of the Five Rings, nor Sengoku.

I already described the basic roll system. One of the best bits of the system is the use of Gifts, Gifts are like Feats in D&D, they allow you to do the cool stuff you see in Usagi Yojimbo comics, or in chanbara movies. Fast draws (iaijutsu), deflect arrows, spring and attack from the air, avoid damage, etc.

The system is not rule-lite, but nor rule-heavy either. The amount of crunch could be compared to Savage Worlds.

Is it overly fixated on the characters happening to be animals? Not at all. As in the Usagi Yojimbo comic, characters are anthropomorphic animals, but if you don't like it it is easy to ignore, in both Gold Rush UY and Sanguine UY. And no, no version of UY includes the sick stuff some people link with furries, you have no reason to fear.

As I said, I'm madly in love with Sanguine UY, but I should also say what is not so pretty:

-It doesn't contain a bestiary. In the Usagi Yojimbo comics, most of his enemies were other people, but sometimes he fought some beast. A shame. Gold Rush UY didn't have a bestiary either, but a supplement, Monsters, was eventually published. It's excellent and very recommendable, by the way. It's a pity the Sanguine people didn't publish one.

-The combat system is very tactical. For me this is a virtue, not a defect, I like tactical combat systems. But you might not like them. You have been warned.

I have no idea regarding compatibility, I have no idea about Albedo, and I don't know Ironclaw or Jadeclaw very well.

I feel I should say something about Gold Rush UY. For me it's kind of a heartbreaker, I wanted to like it, but it has some severe defects. The system could be defined as Fuzion Lite, it's very simple and easy to grok, and it has the heart in the right place. The combat system uses a rock-paper-scissors system, and here is where we find its first severe defect. One of the options, Total Defense, is underpowered, which breaks the system. Fortunately the rock-paper-scissors system can be ignored (I recall Jason told me he did this, please correct me if I'm wrong or houseruled (I have some ideas).

In short, get both! And if you have to choose, get the Sanguine version

Quote from: samurai007;371861One thing I'm not fond of is the Reeling rule.  Basically, any time you are hit in combat, you are sent Reeling.  That means you can't take any actions or reactions except dodge, and attackers get a bonus 1d12 to hit you.  On your turn, Recover from Reeling is a standard action, leaving only a move action that you can do.

I loved the Reeling rule. It represents very well the "SON OF A BITCH!!! THAT HURT!!!" feeling. It's similar, but not the same, to Shaken in Savage Worlds.

QuoteSo, it's quite possible a character could go round after round getting hit, sent reeling and lose his attack, recover, get hit and sent reeling again, etc. until the attacker finally misses you.  And if you're facing multiple opponents, it's even worse.  Luckily, there is a Gift (advantage) called Resolve which negates reeling from minor hits, and can 1 time negate it from a more serious hit.  That makes it nearly a requirement to have, IMHO, and personally, I'd give it free to any character who is trained in combat.  Otherwise, it's so important it's almost a "feat tax".  With that Gift, though, I think the system is tactically interesting and well done.

In theory that might happen, but in actual play it doesn't, at least in my experience. The reason why it doesn't happen in practice is because it's extremely difficult, I would say almost impossible, to be hit several times and just suffer reeling. Damage in SUY is very nasty, PCs and important NPCs usually have special Gifts that protect them from damage, but once they are exhausted (Gifts can get exhausted after being used), if you're hit with a weapon you're toast. Besides, when you're reeling you can only dodge and your opponent gets a 1d12 bonus to hit you (easier to get a crit!), well, it's possible your character might not recover from reeling, ever!

Yes, Resolve is one of those Gifts that don't seem to be that good if you have it, but if you don't have it, you think "Why the hell didn't I take it?!"

Quote from: Claudius;371896Fortunately the rock-paper-scissors system can be ignored (I recall Jason told me he did this, please correct me if I'm wrong or houseruled (I have some ideas).

I did indeed!

This came from reading the combat rules summary and going "How the hell does this mesh with the rock/paper/scissors system?" I emailed Greg Stolze, who essentially said "I guess it doesn't."

He hadn't put that combat summary in there in his manuscript... it was just part of the Fuzion Lite "package" and just got stuck in.

We played and realized that we liked the normal Fuzion system better than the r/p/s system (it doesn't work so well with missile weapons, for example), so we just fixed the few job powers that used the cards, and we used the normal system from there.

Quote from: samurai007;371832I own the Sanguine Usagi book, so I can answer the questions.  

No, it's not a "furries book" (and neither are the 'claw books).  There's no people in animal costumes yiffing or anything like that.  

That doesn't mean its not a "furries" book. It also doesn't mean that most of the people who own the book aren't "people in animal costumes yiffing", etc., and may in fact use the book as part of furthering their own little hobby of animal-fetish-themed sexual deviancy.

it just means that as far as furry rpg books go its relatively innocuous.

RPGPundit

Claudius summed it very well. The combat system is very interesting. One thing I like is that it's not quite a I hit/you hit system. If someone attacks you and you use your (usually) one counterattack and you roll higher, they get hurt. There is also an interupt system where you can hold your action and be prepared for someone to attack you and attack them first if you desire or do other actions like move before they attack you (so you don't stand there whil someone charges you like happens in most systems.  Tactics and actions often give an extra d12 or two to one side or the other and these can make a real difference to the outcome (much more so that the +2 or +4 in D20).
 
Some of the gifts are also powered by separate pools of very limited resources. So you might have a gift that allows you to reduce the damage of a hit (very useful for a combat character) but you can only use it once or twice before you're exhausted. The effect is that, in addition to actual wounds (and the system can get people in a coma quickly), you become exhausted and your fighting ability is degraded.
 
The intended system is such that a well built beginning character can take on 2-3 mooks and usually win. A more experienced character could take out 5-10 mooks. This matches the comic and most samurai movies where real samurai stride through the scrubs.
 
It's not particularly furry. Species determines two starting gifts. You could easily replace these with regional or class starting feats and have a human samurai game. The Usagi Yojimbo comic is less furry than Bugs Bunny. The characters are all animals (mainly for ease of drawing according to the author) but their animalness is never explored.
 
As Claudius said, a limitation of the game is that it is tailored to the comic so there is no bestiary and no magic system.
 
I've only browsed jadeclaw. I'd say that they are generally compatible but not an exact fit. Usagi is a cleaner, faster system.

I guess what I meant by the comment about "Is it overly fixated on the characters happening to be animals?" is that Usagi isn't about the characters being animals.  They're animals largely because Sakai drew a picture of a rabbit samurai and thought it looked neat, and kept with it because it furthered one of his other goals of educating young people about Japan.  

Sometimes it's referenced directly, most of the time it's just an aesthetic choice, a symbol of the personality of the character. There isn't the sense that they're there because the author has a "thing" for walking talking rabbits or whatever, nor do I remember them being often given particularly animalistic traits.  It's just that it came from a time when making cartoons with walking talking rabbits was a perfectly normal thing to do, before anime and yiffing drove the general tastes away from such things.

Exactly.  Usagi is as much a "furry game" as Star Wars is, with it's Walrus Men, Hammerhead Ithorians, Ewoks, Ugnaught pig-men, lizard-like Bosk and Rodians, rabbit-like Lepi, and most famous of all: Chewbacca.