Dungeons & Dragons.

3.5 vs. 4th edition.

Alright, I've noticed a trend the past 6 weeks or so at the store.

I'm getting more and more people looking for either 3.5 D&D or 3.5/OGL compatible stuff. Getting less and less questions and 4th/e D&D.

Also, when two young ladies stopped in Christmas shopping for the brother of one of them I had to qualify with questions which version of D&D her brother plays or owns. She described his Player's Handbook as "..brown and it looks like it has a buckle or lock on it , the way its decorated..." When I showed her what 3.5 books we still had, she said "Yeah, the name part looks the same. "  (She meant the logo.)


As for PATHFINDER......

When I point out to browsers looking for 3.5 D&D stuff that PATHFINDER/PAIZO will be making new stuff thats basically pretty close to 3.5 - they got interested, smile, and thank me for letting them know. One guy even said "You just made my day, maybe my week."


Yes , I know all the above is anecdotal evidence from the store I work at.
 It still may be interesting and useful info to some of you.

- Ed C.

I see similar trends here around the LGS.

4th ed had a strong start and still is pretty prevalent at our LGS (especially among the more casual players), but there are more non-4e campaigns (whether it's 3.5 or something other than D&D), especially among the hobbyists.  The books and modules literally just sit on the shelf (they've even managed to move more Exalted 2e books, thanks to me) and only one or two people ever bother with the supplements.  Modules just do not sell.  No one wants them or any of the adventures.

Meanwhile, I still can't get a copy of Pathfinder at the LGS.  Every time I walk into that place, it's missing.  I'd order from Amazon for the discount, but buying from my LGS makes me feel all warm and bubbly inside.  It also doesn't help that someone over at Amazon.com royally fucked up and they haven't stocked a set of new books, so suddenly the only way to get a copy on Amazon is to buy it from a merchant for 80-freaking-USD.  I could order it from Paizo, but I'd just end up paying more than I would at the LGS.

Still, like a few other people I know eyeing Pathfinder, I'm on the fence as to whether it's worth the switch from 3.5.  I'm tempted to just run Fantasy Craft, but it would be significantly less "D&D-esque".  

The overall trend among everyone I know is still in favor of 3.x or its variants, though.  Even the guys who aren't hardcore D&D/3.x fans I know had pretty "meh" impressions of 4e.

As much as I hate 4e its doing alright in my area, with a few people a bit excited for the 35 dollar 2 PHB set that just came out.

I have seen zero interest in Pathfinder at all.

Course if it was up to me everyone would have jumped on Castles & Crusades.  But there is no accounting for taste.

(Not to mention waiting for that goddamn Castle Keeper's Guide.)

I'm reserving judgement until 5E.  If Hasbro doesn't drop the licence, I want to see how radically it changes the system.  A big change would suggest 4E wasn't as popular as its supporters claimed back in 2009.

If my present group decides to end our 4E campaign, I don't think I would continue on DMing if they're interested in playing 3.5E/Pathfinder.  I'll just let somebody else DM.  I don't ever want to go back to DMing 3E/3.5E beyond level 10.

Maybe 5E will be a cleaned up version of 3E/3.5E with the ease of DMing of 4E.

I would predict that 5E will be quite a noticeable departure from 4E, but not necessarily because of the constant maelstrom of sour grapes being regurgitated onto the forums on a near constant basis by detractors.

5E will be a radical departure because it would need to be to justify a whole new edition. Despite what people think, we won't be seeing a 4.5 since WoTC is already selling 3 new core books a year, with errata being printed in each one...so a new edition with only minor changes will just piss people off.

When 5E does come about, I posit that the game will still feature classes, levels, races, challenges resolved by rolling d20+modifiers vs. target number...but otherwise will have evolved to reflect influences that the game has absorbed during 4e's lifespan.

One thing is for sure though, I don't think D&D will be seeing a return to the granularity and simulationist idiocy that many "hobbyist" gamers seem to enjoy.

3.5 often gets described as a commercial mistake, which would point to it never happening again. Although, the success of Pathfinder does seem to work against that idea somewhat.
 
The best way to predict what 5th edition will be like, it to watch the market as a whole and see what is popular in the run up to it.

Quote from: jadrax;3463963.5 often gets described as a commercial mistake, which would point to it never happening again. Although, the success of Pathfinder does seem to work against that idea somewhat.

The situation is not really comparable.

Pathfinder sets itself up as the Robin Hood of RPGdom.

Quote from: Dirk Remmecke;346416The situation is not really comparable.

Pathfinder sets itself up as the Robin Hood of RPGdom.

MAYBE, but it was based on a game system that was already very popular.

In many ways, WotC doing the switch to 4/e was like when Coca-Cola tried to make "New Coke" their main drink - people complained and rebelled. So Coca-Cola wound up going back to original formula Coke.
Trouble is, WotC isn't likely to go back to 3.5 in this case.



- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;346364Yes , I know all the above is anecdotal evidence from the store I work at.
 It still may be interesting and useful info to some of you.

- Ed C.

Sort of like a last beacon of hope!

Quote from: Koltar;346364Yes , I know all the above is anecdotal evidence from the store I work at.
 It still may be interesting and useful info to some of you.

Interesting and useful? Why, anecdotal evidence is the best kind of "evidence" of all! Particularly when it comes from some creepy dude who professes to hate 4e because it's caused him emotional distress!

Seanchai

Quote from: Koltar;3463643.5 vs. 4th edition.

Alright, I've noticed a trend the past 6 weeks or so at the store...

Sadly, Ed, you haven't exactly proven yourself as an impartial observer where your opinions may be involved.  See, for example, your many posts regarding candidate/President Obama where you start to the effect of "I don't personally have anything against the guy..." then promptly go on to slag him with unflattering anecdotes and comparisons.

You're on record as saying you don't like 4e, so I don't have a lot of faith that you're not looking for the most unflattering examples of 4e sales and play.  It's called Observer Bias, and you got it in spades.

!i!

Gamers aren't rich ... something WotC and WW need to be reminded of again, most cannot afford to buy whole new sets to "upgrade" as we are now talking hundreds of dollars. So this is not a big surprise. WW recently started following WotC's formula, which is why I now include them.

Quote from: Ian Absentia;346456You're on record as saying you don't like 4e, so I don't have a lot of faith that you're not looking for the most unflattering examples of 4e sales and play.  It's called Observer Bias, and you got it in spades.

!i!

No I don't.

 My Gamer/player persona is pretty easy to seperate from my store worker/Assistant manager persona and point of view.

If someone is looking for 4th edition D&D - I happily show them where it is and tell them the newest books we have in from delivery.

- Ed C.


As to your other comments related to the current President. This forum no longer has a politics sub-forum or even an 'other' sub-forum. That part of your post is pretty much irrelevent.

Quote from: KittenKoder;346458Gamers aren't rich ... something WotC and WW need to be reminded of again, most cannot afford to buy whole new sets to "upgrade" as we are now talking hundreds of dollars.

Not rich, perhaps, but with (relatively) lots of disposable income.  There's a sweet spot there between roughly the age of 20 and 30 where one is earning well, but isn't saddled with children and a mortgage.

I think the more telling issue is the general state of the economy and the high unemployment rate.  That "sweet spot" I mentioned above has shrunk drastically in the last two years.

!i!