Encounter 1:

Having spotted a group of bullywugs rooting through the rubble of the ruined keep in search of plunder, the Druid wildshaped into a swarm of tree frogs to try and scout the area and get a good estimate of the enemies numbers. She was backed up by the Seeker, who was the only character with stealth training.

The Druid in treefrog form, hopped through the ruins unmolested until one bullywug made a lucky insight roll (or perception, nature, whatever it was) and croaked a warning to it's fellows. What followed was a surprise round in the party's favor.

The druid's player described it's attack thusly: the swarm of frogs swelled and exploded into a cloud of locusts, attacking everything in a blast 3 (3x3 squares originating from a square adjacent to the druid) utterly devouring one minion and damaging two skirmishers. The druid then spent an action point, allowing her to take another standard action, using her encounter power, another swarm based area attack, hitting both the skirmishers and bloodying them both (this means that at least half of their total hit points were gone) and as a supplementary effect of the power, would only take half damage from melee and ranged attacks until the end of her next turn.

The Seeker, who could see two groups of enemies from his vantage point, fired an arrow at one of the foes next to the druid as a ranged basic attack (the two foes engaging the druid were not adjacent to eachother, so none of the secondary effects of the seeker's powers would have come into play) rolling high for damage and killing it. The Seeker then spent an action point and loosed another arrow at the second group using an at-will power, missing the primary target of the attack initially, but after using the Elve's racial ability, re-rolled the attack successfully. The arrow became a streak of lightning in midflight, killing one bullywug minion and electrifying the area around it, ensuring that the adjacent minion would be destroyed at the beginning of it's turn with the attack's auto-damage effect.

The rest of the party was too far away for anything other than move actions, so we merely moved ourselves into position.

At this point, initiative was rolled.

ROUND 1:

Relic the Fighter rolled highest, but at the druid's behest agreed to hold his action.

The druid acted next, shifting back one square and wildshaping back into her elven form. She then used her chill wind at-will power to do a modest amount of cold damage to the skirmisher and sliding it one square, leaving it next to a stone wall. It was then that the fighter acted, charging the bullywug sandwiching it between his metal body and the wall. The DM described this as the warforged clanking it's way up to the half frozen creature, grasping it's head and slamming it into the wall, causing an extra 1d6 damage and shattering it to pieces.

The Seeker readied an action to fire at any hidden enemies that revealed themselves.

The monsters acted next, 4 bullywug brutes rose from deep from their hiding places in the knee deep mud wallows that filled the area (one of which immediately received an arrow from the Seeker, using an encounter power that not only bloodied it with poison damage, but also slowed it and imposed a -2 penalty to it's defenses)

Two of them charged the Isolated Barbarian, using their encounter powers, allowing them to knock a foe prone if they hit, but causing them to fall prone if they miss. The first one missed...the DM described this as the Barbarian side stepping a wild swing and kicking the bullywug in the chest, causing no damage but knocking it on it's ass. The other bullywug hit and knocked the Barbarian to the ground. One brute charged the fighter and missed. The injured and slowed brute lumbered it's way toward the Seeker but could not reach him.

Next was the Barbarian (played by me) he lunged upright into a crouch (move action) and swept the bullywug who had knocked him prone off of it's feet with a trip attack (successful DEX vs. Reflex defense roll) Spending an action point, the Barbarian used his encounter power, a close burst 1 attack (attacks all enemies adjacent to him) that does 2(w) damage on a hit (2d12 in his case, as my barbarian was dual wielding waraxes : ) but deals 1d6 damage to him everytime he misses. Luckily both foes were prone, thus granting combat advantage (that's 4e for "flat-footed" kinda-sorta) and a +2 to hit. Both attacks were successful, dealing 22 damage to each target. The Barbarian invoked his racial ability, adding an extra d12 damage to one of the brutes, felling it, and then invoked a class feature allowing him to shift and deal another d12 damage to an adjacent enemy after dropping a target to 0hp. This killed the other one.

On the Shaman's turn, she healed the barbarian as a minor action (swift action in 3e) and then used another minor action to summon her spirit animal, a boar, next to the brute who was charging the seeker, missing it with an attack, but granting the fighter temp HP (in 4E this is basically a damage soak) and damage resistance to the seeker.

ROUND 2:

The Druid used her thorn whip at-will power, transforming her staff into a gnarled tangle of vines, to grasp the brute attacking the fighter and pull it 2 squares into a flanking position, giving the fighter combat advantage.

The Fighter, with a +2 to attack with combat advantage, struck the brute and killed it using his encounter power...essentially towering over the terrified bullywug and burying both of his short swords hilt deep in it's chest, as the DM described it.

The Seeker shifted one square so he could be next to the Shaman's spirit companion and gain the bonus to defenses that it offered. Using a minor action, he designated the bullywug as his hunter's quarry (this is an ability gained through taking the multi-class feat for Ranger's, granting the character a once per encounter use of the Ranger's extra damage class feature) and plugged the monster in the head, killing it and ending the first encounter.

One thing to note here is that our group likes to call the encounter early once all of it's more dynamic elements have been exhausted. Fights tend to get boring when it's five PC's duking it out with one or two remaining monsters who can't really offer any sort of credible threat to any of them. We call this the "clean up" portion of the encounter. Since it was obvious after the first round that we had won the fight, the DM simply ruled that the next decent hits the monsters took would drop them.

This tends to trim away some encounter lag time, expend less party resources, allowing them to accomplish more between extended rests, and helps speed the adventure along so that you can get to the gooey story-driven center.

Let me know if anyone is interested in hearing how the other encounters went.

I'd be interested in more from both Casual and Shazbot....I'm always keen on advice that helps speed up combat, too. Definiteluy agree that one of the best ways to "speed it up" is to recognize when one side is on the losing end....that's usually the time for a break in morale, as I run it, leading to surrendur or a quick route.

I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....

Ah well, I was enjoying Cas's post until about the third response or so, then once again the bulk of this went south until Shaz got it back online!

Quote from: camazotz;339727I'd be interested in more from both Casual and Shazbot....I'm always keen on advice that helps speed up combat, too. Definiteluy agree that one of the best ways to "speed it up" is to recognize when one side is on the losing end....that's usually the time for a break in morale, as I run it, leading to surrendur or a quick route.

I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....

Ah well, I was enjoying Cas's post until about the third response or so, then once again the bulk of this went south until Shaz got it back online!

The system crapping isn't any worse here, it's just that the moderation has a MUCH softer hand about things over here.

But yes, that does have the net effect of turning every thread in which D&D is mentioned into a 4e flamewar with one side claiming you are a retarded 13 year old if you play it and the other side claiming that if you're not in love with it, you clearly just hate RPGs and aren't a real gamer anymore.

Quote from: camazotz;339727I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....

Ah well, I was enjoying Cas's post until about the third response or so, then once again the bulk of this went south until Shaz got it back online!

There were D&D based flamewars long before there was ever a 4E. Eventually people will start bickering over something else.

As for speeding up 4E combat, I tend to alter things according to my own tastes when running a game.

I prefer things to be quick and deadly, so I decrease monster hit points by about 1/4 for typicals and elites and 1/2 for solos, and decrease defenses by 1 point. (this helps prevent the encounter from becoming a battle of attrition where both sides are spamming at-wills at one another.) I also tend to increase monster damage by 2 or so points and increase their attack modifier.

Also, like I mentioned before, there is having a sense of when to call the battle.

Also, one houserule that I employ is that spending a healing surge outside of combat restores hit points equal to the characters bloodied value (helps stretch out party resources and staves off the 15 minute workday)

Keep in mind though, that I'm fairly new to the whole DMing thing, so these are likely to change if I find it is adversely affecting the game.

Quote from: Shazbot79;339771There were D&D based flamewars long before there was ever a 4E. Eventually people will start bickering over something else.

As for speeding up 4E combat, I tend to alter things according to my own tastes when running a game.

I prefer things to be quick and deadly, so I decrease monster hit points by about 1/4 for typicals and elites and 1/2 for solos, and decrease defenses by 1 point. (this helps prevent the encounter from becoming a battle of attrition where both sides are spamming at-wills at one another.) I also tend to increase monster damage by 2 or so points and increase their attack modifier.

Also, like I mentioned before, there is having a sense of when to call the battle.

Also, one houserule that I employ is that spending a healing surge outside of combat restores hit points equal to the characters bloodied value (helps stretch out party resources and staves off the 15 minute workday)

Keep in mind though, that I'm fairly new to the whole DMing thing, so these are likely to change if I find it is adversely affecting the game.

Nice ideas. I've been toying around with modifying the hit points and damage ratios, as well, mostly along the lines of cutting the monster HPs (by as much as half) and doubling their damage totals. It seems to lead to shorter and more intense fights, while at the same time keeping the mods "invisible" to the players. I am fortunate not to have any rules lawyers around at present to demand that I explain why minion X is doing 10 points of damage instead of 5, although in the latest experiment with this I informed the players that I was going to mess around with some house rules that would be "behind the scenes" but would affect play. It helps my group, which is by and large very, very very slow moving when it comes to combat sequences.

I've also been adapting the Pathfinder Critical Hit Deck to anything under the sea (used it in my closing C&C game, PF of course, and 4E). I've played it pretty well "by the book" in 4E with only minor adjustments for system variance (i.e. ability damage becomes -2 penalty increments to skills/abilities with cumulative effects that are save to remove or end of encounter, depending on how the card reads) and I've been allowing them to double or triple their base critical according to the cards. This has had the distinct effect of some impressive high-damage one shot kills in the paragon level campaign so far, although I made sure all the players clearly understood that a crit 20 on their daily may be cool, but it will work well in reverse when a monster does the same back.....they managed 4 crits in last night's session and loved it, got lucky and I rolled no crits for the monsters. That will change, of course....

Quote from: rezinzar;339288Sorry, I am in a silly mood today. Don't engage. < Hey me, something to remember!

For I have lurked long enough to know how some people here feel about a game or two, and Hairfoot, I seem to recall, truly believes (makes a show of believing?) that 4e was not only marketed at retarded teenagers, but is overwhelmingly played by said "demographic".

I just thought it would be hilarious if a large percentage of 4e players were actually ex-3e players, and so on. Especially the "so on".

This was not one of my better ideas. So I'll leave Mr. Oblivion's poor thread alone now.

Heh!

In my two game groups, of 13 players one is 21 (marine), my wife is 26, and the remainder run from age 36 to 58. Every single one of us except for two guys are 3.X converts, and the remaining two guys are 1E converts to 4E (they skipped that whole 1988-2008 phase).

We can, however, easily be mistaken for retarded teenagers, so I guess he's right....
:rotfl:

This example sounds very fun, however, it doesn't bring to mind all the fun I've had around the gaming table, it reminds me of all the fun I've had playing MMOGs.  When the Everquest RPG came out, my friends and I played it, it was a way to get Everquest with more RP and less Grind.  The Warcraft RPG, otoh, didn't vary the D20 rules enough to really make it World of Warcraft, it was a pale imitation.

4E strikes me as the perfect system to make a WoW RPG in, or DAoC or LoTRO for that matter.  It is the perfect MMOG simulator.  The problem is, MMOG's for me always carried with them a caveat, namely they weren't really set up well for roleplaying, killing people and taking their stuff with the greatest build and epic gear set you've worked hard for is what they do well.

4e seems like a godsend to people who want to take a MMOG and add some RP to it.  Apply it to Eberron, Realms, Greyhawk or any other setting that started out as a roleplaying environment, and 4e just makes a cheap paper videogame version of that world.

I guess for me it all has to do with the level of disbelief required.  With a MMOG, like a narrative wargame or tactical combat game, I know going in that there are going to be more structured rules, less improvisation, less open roleplay, it just goes with the genre.  Starting out from the perspective of a RPG though, the bar is set much higher for me, as far as suspension of disbelief goes.  There's way too much metagaming in 4e for me to get into my "RP zone".

I realize that distinction is really my problem and not 4e's, but I just need a proper setting, preferably a new one, so I can get my mind in the right place.  Xcrawl seems like a setting 4e could do well, possibly Wraith Recon.

Anyway, sorry if I derailed the thread, but I do like reading 4e battle reports even if they do nothing for the RPer in me, only the MMOGer.

Quote from: camazotz;339727I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil.

Welcome to Thunder Dome.   The rules are simple:  Two men enter.  Both lawncrap.  Finally, someone gets bored and leaves.

BTW, your favorite game sucks and your posts are destroying the entire hobby.

Quote from: camazotz;339923I've been toying around with modifying the hit points and damage ratios, as well, mostly along the lines of cutting the monster HPs (by as much as half) and doubling their damage totals.

I did a playtest of this.  Double damage was a bit psycho...especially on crits.   Half HP is great though.   I am playing around now with adding 1[W] to the monster damage.  

Quote from: camazotz;339923It helps my group, which is by and large very, very very slow moving when it comes to combat sequences.

Do you use Power Cards?   I have found they do a GREAT job helping a group speed up their combat gameplay.

Quote from: camazotz;339727I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....

Fuck you!

Also, welcome to theRPGsite.

RPGPundit

Quote from: camazotz;339727I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....
!

Problems? Heh, RPGnet is some sort of joke, although it's not an easy one to get. The illusion of civility there is only because the mods do alot of harassing via PMs...and they actually ban for things discussed privately, not counting, of course, what is said on the (private) Mod forums.

Quote from: camazotz;339727I discovered this forum today via a link over at rpgnet and am so far absolutely stunned at the rabid system hatred (in whatever direction) that dominates here, as well as the forum crapping that seems to be a given....I thought rpg.net has problems, now it looks remarkably civil....

Civility is an illusion at RPG.net.  There, you have passive-aggressive trolling that the Nazi moderation system enforces.  The tactic, of course, is to subtly troll someone into making an outburst and then reporting the post to the moderators.

It's a beautiful thing.

Quote from: B.T.;340370Civility is an illusion at RPG.net.  There, you have passive-aggressive trolling that the Nazi moderation system enforces.  The tactic, of course, is to subtly troll someone into making an outburst and then reporting the post to the moderators.

It's a beautiful thing.

I have heard this before, and seen it happen on a couple occasions....

Well, there's something very compelling about the baseline honesty at rpgsite here, so I think I'm hooked, either way....!

Quote from: camazotz;340481Well, there's something very compelling about the baseline honesty at rpgsite here, so I think I'm hooked, either way....!

It's so much better than the passive-aggressive nonsense on other sites.

Oh, and check your Private Message folder, c-zotz.

Quote from: Spinachcat;340073Welcome to Thunder Dome.   The rules are simple:  Two men enter.  Both lawncrap.  Finally, someone gets bored and leaves.

BTW, your favorite game sucks and your posts are destroying the entire hobby.



I did a playtest of this.  Double damage was a bit psycho...especially on crits.   Half HP is great though.   I am playing around now with adding 1[W] to the monster damage.  



Do you use Power Cards?   I have found they do a GREAT job helping a group speed up their combat gameplay.

A couple of my players use the power cards. At this point I've decided I have one key player who is a problem for everyone, as he recently departed from the Saturday night game, and the overall quality of the game massively improved in his absence. He still attends the Wednesday game, which is spiraling downward. I'm also rather impressed at his brazen brass ones; he recently constructed an new level 14 character to replace his recently deceased character (he lost an eladrin avenger, and replaced it with....surprise....an eladrin avenger). After reviewing his submitted character at the end of session, I noticed that in addition to the DMG-reccommended "1 item of level, one of level+1 and one of level-1, and as much cash at  a level-1 would equal-17,000 GP-" that he somehow managed to stack on around 90,000 GP of additional equipment on to his character. He also used the roll-method and managed to start with base stats of 14, 15, 16, 17, 17, and 18...riiiiight. Yeesh.

Anyway, this guy's #1 problem is that combat almost freezes when it comes ot his turn, in which he spends several minutes calculating his numbers (which is odd, as he used DDI on his laptop). He is also a rather aggresive player, causing spats between other players, acting as a grammar cop, lecturing at length on his esoteric field of study, and so forth. His absence in the other game so dramatically improved play over the last three sessions that it's impossible not to consider that his mere act of showing up creates an apathetic environment. I'll admit that some of it might be my fault...he's an attention hog as well, and I think he spotted my weak point, which is unabashed interest in absorbing my campaign setting and doing things plot-wise that force my attention back on to him by virtue of his outrageous actions. Not that the other guys don't do that....but they all grokk this concept of "equal time for everyone" and I have been letting this guy get away with too much time-hogging, I think.  

Um....woo, this turned in to a bitch-session unload. Anyway, the guys who use power cards are definitely helped by them. Those who bring laptops and use DDI seem to be fairly with it, and the main crunch seems to be a lengthy "dragging out" of the combat process due to everyone relying more heavily on their at-wills, apparently hoarding encounter and daily powers (which is odd, as by and large in game time they usually have plenty fo time to rest up between ecounters.) I like the idea of bumping up damage by 1W though, as you're right, double damage can have some huge effects on certain monster key abilities. I do find that doubling minion damage makes them more formidable (d'uhr) though! It helps to make the wizard feel even more useful in wiping them out (or the warrior and his whirlwind of doom).

Quote from: The Shaman;340595It's so much better than the passive-aggressive nonsense on other sites.

Oh, and check your Private Message folder, c-zotz.

Interesting site over there, I'll have to investigate further!