There's some great videos of a talk on wfrp here-

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/wfrp/3_media/wfrp3seminar.html

I'm still skeptical about this but there are definitely some very interesting things going on with this design.  It looks very fiddly though.

One HUGE change from 1E (and one I didn't like in 2E)... "the Empire is on the edge of collapse"...

Which, if history is any indicator, is too late to save the empire. Thanks for snapping the verisimilitude in the first 2 minutes, Jay.

I don't understand your complaint. I always thought the Empire was on the brink anyway; much like the Imperium.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;322696I don't understand your complaint. I always thought the Empire was on the brink anyway; much like the Imperium.

1st end isn't quite there... it's rotting, but not rotten.
2nd ed it's rotten to the core...

Quote from: aramis;3226971st end isn't quite there... it's rotting, but not rotten.
2nd ed it's rotten to the core...

Thats how i always played it.  The empire worked, the common people got on with their lives, but there was a taint to things.  Of course, this meant that you could ignore the "collapsing empire" theme using canon sources, just by not exposing the party to that.

With 2nd Ed as written, you could not ignore that side of things unless (as i did) you just used 1st Ed setting with 2nd Ed rules.

There's a lot more interesting things to discuss here than some fluff nonsense.  How about that dice mechanic?  I can't imagine that ever being easy to use.  And the track thingy.  And the tactic cards.  And the group card.  This looks like a complete pain to play.

I like the idea of what I see here, for the most part. But I think there is an easier way to go about it rather than include a shit ton of components that make the whole product expensive and cumbersome. Do they really need all those different types of dice; all with unique symbols and all able to interact meaningfully with each different type?

One thing that continuously jumps out at me is that the game is designed to be very difficult to pirate. Everything is printed out on cards or interlocking puzzle pieces and all the dice are custom. Not the kind of thing you could run after purchasing the pdf.

Then again, maybe they are playing to the aesthetics of Fantasy Flight Games' strength - making pretty board games. Sure, they have repeated that this is not a board game (since there is no board) but it certainly has many elements from FFG's board and card games, like the idea of placing effect cards on the player sheet or the party sheet etc.

Also, their business model does seem to be taking a big page out of WotC's strategy of cranking out additional products. The guy on the video kept referring to "expansions" over and over again. I think the intent will be to crank out all kinds of extra stuff like the 'Halfling expansion' and 'Player Careers volume 2' and sell us packs of power cards, career cards, extra dice, extra player sheets and what have you.

All in all it certainly feels like a very odd mix and not like anything we've seen before. I can't see this gaining any traction with the old school grognards but it may have some appeal to newer gamers if they aren't scared off by the price point.

It might be difficult to pirate, but the people who pirate won't be paying $100 anyway so there will be no loss of sales IMO. But there will be pdf's of the rulebooks in the usual places, of that I am convinced.

Quote from: aramis;3226971st end isn't quite there... it's rotting, but not rotten.
2nd ed it's rotten to the core...

I think this is a distinction which is trivially easy for GMs to tweak to suit their preferences. I also think you are oversimplifying things.

I remember that in the earliest Warhammer-based novels and WFRP materials it was interestingly ambiguous precisely how deep the rot went; 2nd edition simply made it explicit that the rot goes very, very deep indeed. Any GM worth their salt can toss the ambiguity back in.

Quote from: Ghost Whistler;322728I like the idea of what I see here, for the most part. But I think there is an easier way to go about it rather than include a shit ton of components that make the whole product expensive and cumbersome. Do they really need all those different types of dice; all with unique symbols and all able to interact meaningfully with each different type?

Not to defend them, but it makes sense on a certain level, if they aim to sell their product at toy stores rather than book stores.

Quote from: mhensley;322708There's a lot more interesting things to discuss here than some fluff nonsense.  How about that dice mechanic?  I can't imagine that ever being easy to use.  And the track thingy.  And the tactic cards.  And the group card.  This looks like a complete pain to play.

You have to understand Fantasy Flight's design approach. They'll never have just three decks of cards in a game if they can have four decks.

They know from experience that their customers love pieces, tracks, markers, decks, chits, card displays, and lengthy set-up times. I expect WFRP 3E will be lavish. I don't expect it to be elegant. That's just not the way Fantasy Flight rolls.

Quote from: Haffrung;322751They know from experience that their customers love pieces, tracks, markers, decks, chits, card displays, and lengthy set-up times. I expect WFRP 3E will be lavish. I don't expect it to be elegant. That's just not the way Fantasy Flight rolls.

   The problem I have is that all that extra shit tends to get LOST over time.  

You don't need to constantly reference a rulebook if you have a well designed system, good character sheet, and a decent GM screen. Most RPG companys have figured this out.

   FFG seems to be taking a step back in RPG  design and presentation. There's a happy medium that most RPGs try to hit between skirmish game and story game. If you swing too much one way or the other, you start to miss the mark.

Quote from: Warthur;322740I think this is a distinction which is trivially easy for GMs to tweak to suit their preferences. I also think you are oversimplifying things.

I remember that in the earliest Warhammer-based novels and WFRP materials it was interestingly ambiguous precisely how deep the rot went; 2nd edition simply made it explicit that the rot goes very, very deep indeed. Any GM worth their salt can toss the ambiguity back in.

TEW puts the rot mostly at the top. Illuminatis type stuff.
2nd ed makes it pervasive at all levels.

I like 1e and am not much interested in the new game... I expect they will continue to change the setting to be more in tune with the miniatures game and that holds no appeal for me...
But beyond all that... having all this extra crap in the box turns me right off.
If it was a one off board game that would be one thing... but with RPGs... and anything vaguely connected to GW I get a different reaction.
My assumption is that, in addition to the anti-piracy thing (how big a problem is piracy?) is that it locks the owner into a psychological reliance on future products... anything you'd make for yourself isn't going to look half as nice as any 'official' new cards or dice they bring out.
To me having all the fancy extras in the box is a solid ploy for future marketing that I want to avoid.