You're pretty freaking out of touch if you think that a regular 14-year old non-gamer will spontaneously buy Talisman or Dominion, or any other board game priced over about $30.

These aren't fucking RISK or Axis & Allies. They're not selling in the millions.

RPGPundit

Quote from: RPGPundit;320519You're pretty freaking out of touch if you think that a regular 14-year old non-gamer will spontaneously buy Talisman or Dominion, or any other board game priced over about $30.

These aren't fucking RISK or Axis & Allies. They're not selling in the millions.

RPGPundit

You're pretty freaking out of touch if you think that a 14-year old non-gamer is spending his own money to buy games.

And what the fuck are you talking about with your "selling millions"? Is that the new lunacy-induced bar that games now have to reach to meet your nebulously fickle criteria?

In reality-land, almost all roleplaying games except for D&D can only wish they could sell as many copies as most expensive board games like the ones companies like FFG and Days of Wonder produce.

From where I'm standing, FFG's attempt to make people see roleplaying games in a new light by spicing up the game aspect of it instead of the storytelling wankery aspect looks like a smart move; one you would probably be applauding if FFG didn't also happen to do it on the corpse of one of your RPGsite darlings.

Quote from: SpikeDamn. Sett and Melan seem to be channeling a dude... what's his name? Fuck... eric something? Maybe? All they need now is big, forum raping sized pictures of chaos lords and Heavy Metal covers to complete the transition.

It looks like Americans are not very good with irony, even the blatantly obvious. Their secret weakness? Hmmm.

Melan: What Sett and Melan are doing isn't irony, it's sarcasm.

It's also inane, but hey... some people think inane is funny. In text, however, sarcasm often falls flat.

Irony would be if they believed the crap they are spouting.

Thank you for the correction; based on your posts in this thread, I defer to your judgement on the recognition of irony and/or sarcasm.

Quote from: MarionPoliquin;320513Do you really, honestly believe that people still give a shit about paying over 100$ if the product looks like it's worth that much?

Actually? Yes, they do. The third digit itself is a huge psychological barrier.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320519You're pretty freaking out of touch if you think that a regular 14-year old non-gamer will spontaneously buy Talisman or Dominion, or any other board game priced over about $30.

The majority of teens believe "game" = video game and thus, anything that doesn't play on a screen will be off their radar - it just not part of their culture.  

Thus, the only potential teen target are teens who already define "game" as more than just video games and probably are into boardgames.  

The advantage of marketing toward board gamers is that most them play lots of games, unlike RPG players who tend to stick to D&D or at best, two or three others.   Board gamers may own and play dozens of games.  Also, with games like Dominion, Arkham, Doom, Descent and other, the definition of "board game" is being broken down and hybrids are much more welcome.

Quote from: Benoist;320547The third digit itself is a huge psychological barrier.

That why its $99!

I hate the bullshit argument about WFRP and WHFB not being the same universe anymore.  They're no more seperate universes than Dark Heresy vs. WH40K, they just focus on different parts of it and different moods and levels of society.

They're big fucking universes.  Just because one book decides to focus on poorly trained amatuers blundering through a cult investigation, while another is about big fuckers in powered armor smashing demons in the face, doesn't mean they can't both be part of the same place.

Stop being so goddamn singleminded about everything.  Any good universe can be run a multitude of ways from many angles.

Quote from: J Arcane;320550Any good universe can be run a multitude of ways from many angles.

Agreed, but there are customer expectations.   If I buy a Star Wars RPG, I had better be able to play a version of Luke, Han and R2.  So for the WFB fan is going to want to play his favorite mini.  

Chances are, his favorite mini is some badass hero fig.   This is why when WFB players show up at my WFRP games, I tell them its Mordheim level gameplay and they get it.

As for the 3e, I can't be worried right now.  My Warhammer energies are focussed on a future Savage Worlds Necromunda campaign and playing with my Tyranid army.

Or, you know, we can not be condescending, insulting shitheads, and actually assume they're capable of making the creative leap to understanding other possibilities of the universe.

But I suppose I should expect as much who posts shit like this:  

QuoteThe majority of teens believe "game" = video game and thus, anything that doesn't play on a screen will be off their radar - it just not part of their culture.

You know why kids don't want to join your precious fucking hobby?  Because no one likes being treated like a fucking idiot, ESPECIALLY not teenagers.  The last thing that will win votes from the youth is treating them like a bunch of fucking braindead kindergartners.

Quote from: Benoist;320547Actually? Yes, they do. The third digit itself is a huge psychological barrier.

Which is why the price point is $99.95...

That nickel makes a good bit of difference for some people.

Quote from: Captain Rufus;320424It won't be though. 100 dollar boardgames won't be sold in regular stores.

I'm willing to bet FFG's boardgame Descent has sold more copies since its release than any RPG except D&D. They don't have to sell a Warhammer RPG for $40 at Target to make it a very successful by RPG standards.

I won't be buying the game. But if you think there's no market for a quasi RPG/boardgame for $100, then you must not follow the boardgame side of the market very closely.

Quote from: RPGPundit;320509And NONE of those you mentioned are "break-through" games with vast appeal among new gamers. They are specialty games for geeks looking for that particular type of game.

To suggest that the average 12-year old (or parent shopping for a 12-year old) is going to go for this is just absurd.

And who suggested that? Not FGG. They don't need to publish the next Red Box D&D for the game to be a success. I'm sure they'd be pleased with 20,000 units. In a RPG market where most 'successful' games have initial print runs of around 2,000-4,000, that looks pretty good.

Quote from: J Arcane;320550Stop being so goddamn singleminded about everything.

Aren't you the one who posted that they'd better not touch "your" Dark Heresy?

Quote from: J Arcane;320557Or, you know, we can not be condescending, insulting shitheads, and actually assume they're capable of making the creative leap to understanding other possibilities of the universe.

You know why kids don't want to join your precious fucking hobby?  Because no one likes being treated like a fucking idiot, ESPECIALLY not teenagers.  The last thing that will win votes from the youth is treating them like a bunch of fucking braindead kindergartners.

Agreed.

It's not price points keeping kids out of the hobby.  It's the continuing stigma that keeps being perpetuated.

Lets also add that they probably don't want to sit in a smelly shop looking at some fat cat piss smelling person with Cheetos dust still in his beard.  Also that parents don't like entering stores that are flocked with said people who look up at them like *they* are the freaks.  That stigma will keep games out of their teenagers hands as much, if not more then anything.

Where I live we really only have about 2 significant gaming stores of any worth.  One caters pretty much to mini-games, with a smattering of RPG's, board games and collectibles.  They have gaming tables setup and a constant crowd of people loitering about and it smells like the stereo type.  It stays in business because of it's loyal fans that are all friends and hang out there 24/7.  I think the store makes money more through osmosis then actual sales.

The other store is a rather large primarily boardgame and collectible store.  But the sell pretty much everything, art supplies, greeting cards, lego's stuffed animals, comics, minis, rpg's, educational stuf etc.... They don't have gaming tables they are friendly and approachable and they have a constant stream of sales of $50+ games.  Games like Descent, Doom, Eve, Android, and Dominion don't stay on the shelves.  

Parents bring their kids in there regularly just to shop around.  It's places like that keep kids in the hobby.  Parents see that normal people partake of this activity and don't feel odd that their kids are hanging out in some smelly questionable place.

In stores like that WFRP can do well, because it will look awesome sitting on the shelf and it'll be sitting alongside other similarly priced games.  It's a known name in the hobby industry and it could very easily bridge the gap between Descent and previous RPG's.

I'm still not wholy sold on the idea, but I'm warming to what they are trying to accomplish.  I do still feel that the price point is about %20 to high.