I never heard of him either. But I think it's fair to comment that if he was so successful at what he was doing, why did he stop it and become a novel writer instead?

I mean, that's your great evidence of how things could change... a guy who abandoned publishing rpgs? It'd be like me saying, "you know I must be a brilliant chef and my office catering stunningly successful, since I am leaving it to become a personal trainer." If that's evidence, it doesn't point in quite the direction you're saying...

Dur?

He stopped being a game designer and became an author because being a fifth-rate fantasy author pays far, far, far better than any RPG gig not involving Hasbro, or MAYBE ... no, no second place.

Gaming pays shit.

Why do you think Steve Brust stopped running his fantasy world and started writing it up as books instead of publishing RPGs?  Even back in 1985 there was no longer any real money in RPGs.

Absolutely with OG on this. Gaming pays shit. That's why he left RPG design.

Yes, I know that. We all do. But old Bradford says it ain't so. He says the guy was immensely successful as an rpg writer with his little production model.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;314577Yes, I know that. We all do. But old Bradford says it ain't so. He says the guy was immensely successful as an rpg writer with his little production model.

I know you know. But hey, going back to this Lynch dude, how do you measure the success of something that never started (or went on) to begin with? Sounds to me like wishful-thinking, honestly.

Definitely.

Old Bradford is just another of those guys who tells us that the computer will give us the paperless office and the cashless society and abolish books and so on.

May or may not be a good thing, but doesn't seem to be happening.

Honestly, I'm not optimistic regarding the industry - not the hobby, mind you, but the actual "industry" - I think it's going to go on shrinking, year after year, until it gets back to a majority of hobbyist productions (it's already the case but for a few big actors like WotC, WW and ... who else?). And then it's going to survive like this.

And I'm fine with that. Honestly, I much prefer this scenario than the one where all we've got is a hobby that just keeps on pimping RPG-whore products to the pseudo-mass market of the moment, failing miserably one after then other because the designers are on coke and make up stuff about "what kids want these days", et cetera, ad nauseam, and then some.

So I'm not all doom-and-gloom either. I think everything's gonna be fine for the hobby.

Quote from: Benoist;314587So I'm not all doom-and-gloom either. I think everything's gonna be fine for the hobby.

I'll tell you my opinion after next week's game session. If it doesn't happen or goes badly, then I will decide that rpgs are dying. If it goes swimmingly, then the industry is obviously doing brilliantly.

Crossing my fingers on this one.

Quote from: Benoist;314587(it's already the case but for a few big actors like WotC, WW and ... who else?).

The second tier...
Mongoose, FanPro, SJG.

QuoteAnd I'm fine with that. Honestly, I much prefer this scenario than the one where all we've got is a hobby that just keeps on pimping RPG-whore products to the pseudo-mass market of the moment, failing miserably one after then other because the designers are on coke and make up stuff about "what kids want these days", et cetera, ad nauseam, and then some.

It's not a zero-sum relationship. The existence of the commercial RPG industry in no way hinders the creation and availability of hobbyist content. You already have access to all the hobbyists and homebrew RPG content you'll ever need. The success or failure of the RPG industry will not impact that one way or another.

Quote from: Kyle Aaron;314577Yes, I know that. We all do. But old Bradford says it ain't so. He says the guy was immensely successful as an rpg writer with his little production model.

Fantastic success, yes, for an indie RPG guy.  You folks seriously forget how little folks outside of WOTC and White Wolf make in the TRPG business; the big deal was that he made enough to live on, but at that time he was a single man living in a rented house with a roommate.  Now he's living with his wife in a home that he owns (a home that his book sales got him, and it's still not living large; he's solidly working class in status).

I'm not even going that far.  I'm looking at a steady supplemental income in time, as what I'm big on doing in life has little (if anything) to do with RPGs.

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;314727Fantastic success, yes, for an indie RPG guy.  You folks seriously forget how little folks outside of WOTC and White Wolf make in the TRPG business; the big deal was that he made enough to live on, but at that time he was a single man living in a rented house with a roommate.

Brad speaks truth.  Outside of those two companies, and maybe Steve Jackson and one or two others, not having a day job is "Major Score!!!" in the RPG "industry".

Quote from: Bradford C. Walker;314727I'm not even going that far.  I'm looking at a steady supplemental income in time,

An ambitious, but achievable, goal.

Quote from: Benoist;314587Honestly, I'm not optimistic regarding the industry - not the hobby, mind you, but the actual "industry" - I think it's going to go on shrinking, year after year, until it gets back to a majority of hobbyist productions (it's already the case but for a few big actors like WotC, WW and ... who else?). And then it's going to survive like this.

And I'm fine with that. Honestly, I much prefer this scenario than the one where all we've got is a hobby that just keeps on pimping RPG-whore products to the pseudo-mass market of the moment, failing miserably one after then other because the designers are on coke and make up stuff about "what kids want these days", et cetera, ad nauseam, and then some.

So I'm not all doom-and-gloom either. I think everything's gonna be fine for the hobby.

While I agree with your scenario, I'm less positive about the outcome.

RPGs got their start from wargamers, and back in that day (where I started), wargaming was stark, no-frills games in terms of visual appear (SSI, I hear you calling...). The early RPGs were pretty primitive in appearance, with crude art and crappy print standards (ah, Judges Guild...).

And while I hestiate to go with 'the kids these days' line, I will say that the pool we draw new hobbyists from is more accustomed to high quality production values. Visual appeal is a selling point that the producers of video games exploit-just stroll the boxes in the Xbox aisle.

Indie pdfs look like indie pdfs. Say what you will about 4e and the other biggies, but they have professional packageing.

Even the hard-copy war games coming out these days are a lot more visually appealing.

We are already laboring under the geek symbol, and in increasing competition with video media games. When you reduce or eliminate the high-gloss RPG products, you will reduce the ability to draw fresh gamers.

Quote from: J Arcane;313676The battle's been lost for now to the marketing teams in the vidgame world, and I hope and pray they'll come around to remembering the lessons of previous generations in time before it's too late.

I couldn't agree more!

This gaming stuff is SERIOUS BUSINESS!