i've grown weary of pseudo-medieval settings for d&d and i'd like to try something different. i've always liked sword & sandals movies and a more fantastic version of ancient mesopotamia seems like it would be an interesting place in which to play. i've read through green ronin's testament and necromancer games' "ancient kingdoms: mesopotamia," and i was wondering if anyone could recommend any other source material. i'm particularly interested in the akkadian civilization. thanks for the help!

daniel

I got this book for Christmas and have read about halfway through it. It really tries to give personality for the major players back then.

http://www.amazon.com/History-Ancient-World-Earliest-Accounts/dp/039305974X

I also have some Warfare in the Ancient World books, but they seem to always start sometime after Mesopotamia.

I have a lot of books on Mesopotamia from my college research.  I found the following two good for gaming application, though their scholarly value (esp. the first) is a tiny bit suspect (who can really tell, though?):

http://www.amazon.com/Daily-Ancient-Mesopotamia-Karen-Nemet-Nejat/dp/1565637127/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235152251&sr=1-1

http://www.amazon.com/Everyday-Life-Ancient-Mesopotamia-Bott%C3%A9ro/dp/0801868645/ref=pd_bxgy_b_img_b

Between the Rivers by Harry Turtledove

http://www.amazon.com/Between-Rivers-Harry-Turtledove/dp/0812545206/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235153654&sr=8-1

Captures the feel of living in a fantasy Mesopotamia.

These are not Mesopotamia but are a great source for gaming in Classical Greece.

Over the Wine-dark Sea also by Turtledove

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b_0_13?url=search-alias%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=over+the+wine-dark+sea&x=0&y=0&sprefix=over+the+wine

and the other in the series

The Gryphon's Skull, The Sacred Land, and Owls to Athens.

you guys are awesome. thanks so much. the books are ordered and will be on their way shortly. ken, you mentioned that you had noticed that those two texts were particularly applicable for gaming... have you run a mesopotamian fantasy game before? if so, what did you use? i was thinking of just going with something like swords & wizardry... i've been looking for an excuse to run it and the starkness and simplicity of the rules seem somehow appropriate to me.

Hey, oktoberguard,

I used a homebrew set of rules inspired by Paul Elliot's Zenobia, which is worth looking into if you like simple games.  My game was short-lived; not many of my players were as enthused about the setting as I was.  I do hope to revive it one day; still have my notebooks and maps.

If you live near a college, I'd check their library for resources, as well.  There's a great archaeological study called Nippur Neighborhoods that tracks the development of various neighborhoods in Nippur (thus the title!) over time.  If you read between the lines, you get a vivid picture of inter-familial relations, how land deals were done, etc.  It was immensely helpful in imagining how life was in those early cities.  The study should be fairly easy to obtain, as it's a landmark reference work.

EDIT: Here's the info on the Nippur book.

Just remembered another:

http://www.amazon.com/Life-Ancient-Near-3100-332-B-C-E/dp/0300076665/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1235160746&sr=8-5

This one I really liked.  Still refer to it every now and then.

Quote from: KenHR;284690Hey, oktoberguard,

I used a homebrew set of rules inspired by Paul Elliot's Zenobia, which is worth looking into if you like simple games.  My game was short-lived; not many of my players were as enthused about the setting as I was.  I do hope to revive it one day; still have my notebooks and maps.

If you live near a college, I'd check their library for resources, as well.  There's a great archaeological study called Nippur Neighborhoods that tracks the development of various neighborhoods in Nippur (thus the title!) over time.  If you read between the lines, you get a vivid picture of inter-familial relations, how land deals were done, etc.  It was immensely helpful in imagining how life was in those early cities.  The study should be fairly easy to obtain, as it's a landmark reference work.

EDIT: Here's the info on the Nippur book.

i'll check for that, thanks. i've heard that the u penn museum of archaeology and anthropology has a pretty impressive mesopotamian collection, and that's just over the river from where i live. i may have to head over and check it out for inspiration.

I've always wanted to run a similar game, and also one set in ancient Egypt.  For a mythic Mesopotamia I think that I would emphasize the city vs. wilderness theme, with the PCs being the agents of order, sallying forth to tame the savage forces of nature ala Gilgamesh and his fight with Humbaba.  

The city is new and vibrant, and the wilderness impossibly old and filled with danger and supernatural power.  And I think that there would be some interesting interplay between the wishes of the gods and mankind.  In the Humbaba story, as I recall, the gods were not entirely happy with Gilgamesh whacking the big guy.  There would also be some good room to explore the "goodness" of civilization, as with Enkidu's rebuke of it on his deathbed and desire to go back to a state of nature.

I think that the idea of using Swords & Wizardry for such a project would be a great choice.  I like its simplicity in general, but I think that it would also give a nice "primeval" feel to the affair.  And I think that just having Fighting Man, Cleric, and Magic User would work well for ancient Mesopotamia.


TGA

I find that the Time-Life series of books (The Hittites, The First Horsemen etc) and other coffee-table type books are great sources for RPGs. They have good pics and information of about the same level as an RPG sourcebook.

I think Osprey also does a couple of books on the ancient Middle East.

Quote from: The Good Assyrian;284709I've always wanted to run a similar game, and also one set in ancient Egypt.  For a mythic Mesopotamia I think that I would emphasize the city vs. wilderness theme, with the PCs being the agents of order, sallying forth to tame the savage forces of nature ala Gilgamesh and his fight with Humbaba.  

The city is new and vibrant, and the wilderness impossibly old and filled with danger and supernatural power.  And I think that there would be some interesting interplay between the wishes of the gods and mankind.  In the Humbaba story, as I recall, the gods were not entirely happy with Gilgamesh whacking the big guy.  There would also be some good room to explore the "goodness" of civilization, as with Enkidu's rebuke of it on his deathbed and desire to go back to a state of nature.

I think that the idea of using Swords & Wizardry for such a project would be a great choice.  I like its simplicity in general, but I think that it would also give a nice "primeval" feel to the affair.  And I think that just having Fighting Man, Cleric, and Magic User would work well for ancient Mesopotamia.


TGA

you and i are of a like mind on this, especially as regards s&w. no thief? no problem!

the richness of the setting for fantasy gaming leaves me scratching my head and wondering why it hasn't been tapped for gaming more often (although perhaps tekumel and athas/dark sun sorta scratch the same itch). gods? demons? heroes? monsters? empires rising and falling? lost civilizations? it's got it all.

Quote from: oktoberguard;284715you and i are of a like mind on this, especially as regards s&w. no thief? no problem!

Exactly!  The thief just seems too "urban" for this kind of primeval setting.

Quote from: oktoberguard;284715the richness of the setting for fantasy gaming leaves me scratching my head and wondering why it hasn't been tapped for gaming more often (although perhaps tekumel and athas/dark sun sorta scratch the same itch). gods? demons? heroes? monsters? empires rising and falling? lost civilizations? it's got it all.

Yeah, all of the elements are there, but I think that Mesopotamia is pretty obscure to the casual gamer.  I am more surprised that there hasn't been more use of ancient Egypt in RPGs - with all the exposure and interest in Egypt in the Western world for the last 100 years.  I guess that the default fantasy setting for RPGs resembles what we are most comfortable identifying as "fantasy", largely derived from Tolkien, Howard, etc who in turn drew upon medieval European tropes.


TGA

Check out Kengir, and AD&D homebrew setting for Mesopotamia, too.  I didn't end up using much for my game (most of what I liked in it I already had in some form), but it might be helpful.  Link available here:

http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/Creativity_Design.html

Quote from: KenHR;284734Check out Kengir, and AD&D homebrew setting for Mesopotamia, too.  I didn't end up using much for my game (most of what I liked in it I already had in some form), but it might be helpful.  Link available here:

http://gnba.netdemons.com/books/olik/Creativity_Design.html

Nice resource!  Thanks!



TGA

I re-downloaded Kengir, myself.  Looking at it now, I think I disregarded a lot of the doc because it was a bit more of a "straight" reading of Sumer into AD&D terms.  My little world of Dumurra was more "inspired" by Sumer...played a bit fast and loose with history and the like.  I'm much more impressed with Kengir now.