Quote from: gleichman;250526That's my impression as well.

He's not coming off some much as a West elitist (he'd know the answers to the question he's put forth if he was), as someone who's basically ignorant of American language and culture.

I doubt we're going to figure out the truth of it, he's not responding to our points- insists on continuing the confusing language and even seems unaware of revisionist Westerns that Koltar cited.

I'm tossing him on my IL as someone not worth dealing with and calling it quits.

An ignoble retreat following a failure to understand the initial question posed.

Still, no harm done.

PC Koltar Smith - nice touch in the example.

 Although to fit in the period better an NPC could be named Colt R. Smith. Close enough phonetically that it would be cool.

Or if you have an ally NPC lawman or researcher named Wayne Charlton that likes to use either a Colt as his main weapon or whatever is closest to a Ruger. (That gun company doesn't get started till the 1940s)  Maybe a Winchester would work.
 I'll have to call my Father - he's the gun expert in the family.


- Ed C.

Quote from: Koltar;250553PC Koltar Smith - nice touch in the example.

 Although to fit in the period better an NPC could be named Colt R. Smith. Close enough phonetically that it would be cool.

Or if you have an ally NPC lawman or researcher named Wayne Charlton that likes to use either a Colt as his main weapon or whatever is closest to a Ruger. (That gun company doesn't get started till the 1940s)  Maybe a Winchester would work.
 I'll have to call my Father - he's the gun expert in the family.


- Ed C.

By coincidence, Wayne Charlton happens to be a Texas Ranger stationed near San Angelo (the PCs start in Texas, so the players can use personal knowledge of terrain & climate).

Quote from: flyingmice;250545Nice trick. It does, however, require the GM to have an in-depth knowledge of the relevant techniques and procedures. If you could codify that knowledge so a tyro could run it, you'd have a game product a lot of people would like.

-clash

 Thanks. I tried once but swiftly bogged down.

Quote from: CavScout;250529Old West, 1878, with a moderate deviation from history (does not affect technology or major political developments).

There is nothing wrong with his English, though there is likely a problem with your comprehension of what he stated he was looking for.

I was referring specifically to the assertion that "history=genre", an equivalence that nobody who knows the meaning of those two words would propose.

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250514Neither player has to know how to conduct the investigation; the techincal knowledge is vested in their PCs. I will explain what was found.

What the players will have to deduce is why the victim was killed, and why they burned his hand.

OK, with you so far.

So, how does your required knowledge-correlation-centre tie in with this?

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250548Although given the simple explanation in my OP, I'm wondering how you've managed to be so confused:

My point of confusion is this:

When you say "history=genre", are you saying "in this particular situation, the genre is 'The Historical West'", or are you saying "In general, the Western genre and the historical West are equivalent?"

The former is not problematic for me. The latter is, and seemed in the context in question to be what you were saying.

Quote from: Warthur;250571OK, with you so far.

So, how does your required knowledge-correlation-centre tie in with this?

OK, the first example was direct evidence: a murder scene.

Now, say the PCs follow up on the murder scene, track down the killer, who has a sacred object in his possesstion.

Now, a roll on a archeology skill could ID it as Tibetian. But its unlikely that the PC could tell you much more than that without referencing written works on the subject-the oddss of the PC being a dedicated expert in Tibetian occult is unlikely (and counter-productive in the greater scope of things).

Reference to a book on similar occult subjects could yield that it was used by a murder-cult; however, there is a difdference between what the book shows, and the object: there is a symbol in it that appeats to be Egyptian in nature.

So now the PC will need access to a wider range of books, on murder cults, Tibetian cults, and Egypitian cults.

In this case, the skill requires a prior condition to come into play: basic knowledge skill (its Tibetian); intermediate knowledge (what book to look up the subject); advanced (need a range of books, to tie down the discrepancies & connections).

So PC Dr. F. Mice, curator of the London Museum on sabbbatical, examines the object (good roll), and says it Tibetian-now, do I have C. Scout's work on central Asian cults? Why, yes I do. (skill roll). Hmmm...that's odd. Something doesn't quite fit. C. Scout is very clear regarding the type of invocation, but the engraving here has symbols which look a bit like early Upper Nile...odd, that. If I could do a spot of cross-checking..."

And so it goes.

Quote from: Warthur;250577My point of confusion is this:

When you say "history=genre", are you saying "in this particular situation, the genre is 'The Historical West'", or are you saying "In general, the Western genre and the historical West are equivalent?"

The former is not problematic for me. The latter is, and seemed in the context in question to be what you were saying.

Ok. What I was trying to say, quickly so as to put the thread back on track, was that the historic Old West was the setting, with minor alterations which were clearly set out for the players.

Its the same as writers of historical fiction: Lonesome Dove, to use an example, is based on a Texas cattleman (Ford) who drove a huge herd to Montana and started a financial empire there, and several other historic figures (the transporting of the body back to Austin was another copy of a real event; Blue Duck was a combination of several criminals; the Slugg brothers likewise).

The genre is the historical Old West. There's a decent setting called Coyote Trail which likewise protrays the West as it was, not as Hollywood shows it.

OneTinS.,

 There is a Wikepedia page for that year that may or may not be usful:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1878

The part of the Wold Newton Universe timeline that includes the 1870s:

http://www.pjfarmer.com/woldnewton/Chron3.htm

Again you might find it useful or interesting or not.....

Wold Newton has got this:

Quote1873 - First recorded adventure of Jonah Hex (All-Star Western No. 10, DC Comics; click here for more information).

1874 - Birth of Richard Hannay. Hannay's uncle, William Drummond, is the grandfather of Hugh "Bulldog" Drummond and John "Korak" Drummond-Clayton. Hannay's maternal grandmother is Oread Butler, a cousin of Rhett Butler (Gone With the Wind).

1874 - Birth of Arsène Lupin.

Also this stuff:

Quote1878 - The events of Robert Louis Stevenson's The Suicide Club, found in the volume entitled New Arabian Nights. The story's Prince Florizel of Bohemia also appeared in the same volume's The Rajah's Diamond and would be seen again in Watson's/Doyle's A Scandal in Bohemia. The "celebrated detective" who is indirectly involved in these events is clearly Sherlock Holmes. And the tall man with a heavy stoop who declines to assist the Prince is Colonel James Moriarty. Finally, as Rick Lai demonstrated in his article, The Secret History of Captain Nemo, Dr. Noel, the retired master criminal who assists in the case, is the father of the first Professor James Moriarty and the second Professor James Moriarty. (See Edgar W. Smith's A Scandal in Identity in the volume Profile in Gaslight, Simon & Schuster, 1944; see also Jack Tracy's Some Thoughts on the Suicide Club in The Baker Street Journal, New Series, Vol. 22, #2, June, 1972.)

1878 - The Lone Ranger helps out Robert Walker, the son of lawman called "Six Gun" Walker. "Six Gun," who died in 1872, left his land and property to Robert, who has lived his entire life abroad. (Television episode of The Lone Ranger entitled Six Gun's Legacy.) Wold Newton researcher Chuck Loridans postulates that "Six Gun" Walker is actually the 16th Phantom, also called the Masked Cowboy. The Phantom Chronology indicates that the 16th Phantom operated during the1840s-60s and that he died sometime after 1867. Masked Men: A Chronology of the Lone Ranger and the Green Hornet demonstrates that the first season of the Lone Ranger television series took place around 1878. It is possible that 16th Phantom and his wife, Texan Annie Morgan, had another child, born several years after the twins Kip (the 17th Phantom) and Julie (according to some the 18th Phantom), named Robert. The 16th Phantom died in 1872, and his younger son, who would not receive the Phantom birthright, did inherit his father's land in Texas, and returned to permanently settle there. Perhaps he is an ancestor of the modern-day kick-boxing Texas Ranger (see TV Crossovers), as well as Los Angeles policewoman Darcy Walker, better known as The Black Scorpion.

c. Late 1870s - The events of The Bostonians, as chronicled by Henry James.

Have fun with the possible connections to Lovecraftian stuff....


- Ed C.

Quote from: flyingmice;250547That's exactly the way I read it. Then again, my default switch is set to "historically accurate" so I don't think I'm the best judge in the matter. Actually, I'm almost never the best judge in any matter.

It would seem some have inserted "I don't like the background he has chosen" with "He doesn't know how to use English to write a question that I would clearly understand." :idunno:

Quote from: Warthur;250577My point of confusion is this:

When you say "history=genre", are you saying "in this particular situation, the genre is 'The Historical West'", or are you saying "In general, the Western genre and the historical West are equivalent?"

The former is not problematic for me. The latter is, and seemed in the context in question to be what you were saying.

I'd suggest reading what he wrote and not interjecting your own interpretations and/or biases into it. He didn't mention "genre". He laid out the historical requirements for his setting and then asked for a solution to a problem he was having.

By-the-way, folks in that time period , books were also thought of as a primary entertainment if there wasn't a theater or dancehall in the nearby town.
Not everyone was the most literate - but literacy was well-thought of.

This was also the time period when Dime Novels became popular:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dime_novels

This passage is very relevant to OneTinSoldier's campaign era:

QuoteBeadle's Dime Novels were immediately popular, owing to an increased literacy in the population around the time of the American Civil War, and by the war's end there were numerous competitors like George Munro and Robert DeWitt crowding the field, distinguishing their product only by title and the color choice of the paper wrappers. Even Beadle & Adams had their own alternate "brands", such as the Frank Starr line. As a whole, the quality of the fiction was derided by higher brow critics and the term 'dime novel' quickly came to represent any form of cheap, sensational fiction, rather than the specific format.

People on the frontier LIKED to read, same for the midwest and back east of the time.

- Ed C.

Quote from: OneTinSoldier;250585So PC Dr. F. Mice, curator of the London Museum on sabbbatical, examines the object (good roll), and says it Tibetian-now, do I have C. Scout's work on central Asian cults? Why, yes I do. (skill roll). Hmmm...that's odd. Something doesn't quite fit. C. Scout is very clear regarding the type of invocation, but the engraving here has symbols which look a bit like early Upper Nile...odd, that. If I could do a spot of cross-checking..."

And so it goes.

I'm not a doctor, but I play one as PC.

-clash

Quote from: CavScout;250623I'd suggest reading what he wrote and not interjecting your own interpretations and/or biases into it. He didn't mention "genre". He laid out the historical requirements for his setting and then asked for a solution to a problem he was having.

I'd suggest reading the damn thread, and paying close attention to the bit where he says "history=genre". It was ambiguous, and that's been cleared up; there's no need for you to wail about it further on OneTin's behalf.

You know, I can't remember any time where your participation in a thread hasn't involved giving people a hard time. What's up with that, crankyboots?