So, as my sig indicates I'm playing in an RC D&D game currently, characters are houseruled for setting (basically it's a magocracy and all the main PCs bar mine are magi, who are heavily beefed up in this setting, I mostly play a cleric who was originally intended as a support character but just turned out to be really fun).

Two sessions back we're short on players, so me and one other take our magi (I mostly play the cleric, but occasionally play a mage instead) and a small team and go explore a ruined town near our lands.  We encounter undead, christ knows what kind (I own the book, but looking them up would spoil the fun IMO), and only luck, bad GM dicerolling and a protection from evil spell prevent level drain.

We go back in, and get our asses handed to us.  We wreak some hefty harm back, it's no clear victory for the forces of death, but we are taking heavy wounds and getting increasingly pressed and so retreat.  The fact my mage did not have protection from evil weighed heavily, one hit and he's down 10,000+ xp.

So, we return to our home base, heal up, recoup, get the cleric.  Last Monday we go back with the cleric, a different mage (a third player was back) and the other original mage, plus a small body of henchmen and we end up fighting a room to room battle in some undead barracks with evidence that the terrible vampire-lich-whateverthefuck death knight we finally kill after two sorties into town probably was just another lieutenant and not the commander of the evil horde.

So, what do we learn from this?

Retreat and regroup.

Head in, achieve your objectives, head back out.  Don't get sucked in to fights you aren't sure to win.

Fear level drain.  Seriously, as players we fear the things we're fighting, our sorties into town are timed by reference to how long our protection from evils last and we make damn sure we can't be pinned down until that expires.

Protection from evil doesn't protect you from the death knight whacking you with a bloody great sword, doing d12 damage per hit.

RC D&D is scary.  You really feel you have your character's life on the line, you respect the monsters, you fight hard and you don't assume that you can win - the town may be controlled by something we just can't defeat yet.

Not sure where all this takes me, but it seemed vaguely relevant to some current conversations.  It's old school I guess, we're not guaranteed victory, we're not guaranteed survival even, we fight and if we don't fight smart we take losses.

Oh, how did we realise we hadn't got the big bad?  Stupidly, after last week we camped outside the ruined town to rest up, the session ended with the undead attacking us that same night in a cliffhanger to next week.  Protection from evils now all elapsed of course, and all spells cast...

RC D&D, you learn to respect your foes.  You learn to retreat.  You learn not to assume that you're going to be guaranteed a heroic victory no matter what dumbass things you do.

Great game.  I recommend it.

RC??

Awesome! That sounds like a fun game.

I agree that Level Drain is a great way to add "Fear" to the game -- because it's something the players themselves actually "fear".

RC = Rules Compendium

Rules Compendium (RC) is the same game as the Mentzer series of Basic, Expert, Companion, Masters and Immortals (BECMI) D&D.  It's virtually the same game as the Moldvay + Cook/Marsh series of Basic and Expert (B/X) D&D.  They're all more or less interchangeable, with only very slight differences in rules between them, and commonly referred to as "Classic" D&D.

It's good to see it getting a lot more interest lately.

For the life of me, I just couldn't describe the RC and yes, it is nice to see it getting dusted off and enjoyed like it should.

Quote from: Stuart;221358Awesome! That sounds like a fun game.

I agree that Level Drain is a great way to add "Fear" to the game -- because it's something the players themselves actually "fear".

When I played D&D as a kid we always houseruled away level drain, it wasn't until a few months ago when I saw I think Old Geezer explain the thinking behind it (it makes the players fear the undead the way their characters should) that it clicked for me.

I mean, I'm not GM so whether it had clicked for me or not we'd still be facing it, but at least now I can say that Old Geezer was spot on with this one - level drain makes you rp a frightened character, because you are a frightened player.

Quote from: Balbinus;221370I mean, I'm not GM so whether it had clicked for me or not we'd still be facing it, but at least now I can say that Old Geezer was spot on with this one - level drain makes you rp a frightened character, because you are a frightened player.

Yeah, that was my GM's argument for punching us in the face every time we got hit in-game.

Quote from: Stuart;221358Awesome! That sounds like a fun game.

I agree that Level Drain is a great way to add "Fear" to the game -- because it's something the players themselves actually "fear".

While I hate the metagame aspect of it and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it anymore, I can definitely agree it's fear inspiring I also agree, it sounds like a very fun game.

Quote from: Engine;221372Yeah, that was my GM's argument for punching us in the face every time we got hit in-game.

There's a chap on rpg.net, I've had a drink with him once and believe him on this, who once tried out with a new group and when his character got injured the GM pulled out a paintgun from under the table and shot him in the chest at point blank range.

Hurt like hell I understand, and ruined the new white shirt he was wearing by chance that day.  The GM explained it let the player understand the pain the character was experiencing.

He's a nice chap this chap, and luckily for the GM in question not a fellow prone to fist based conflict resolution mechanics, as if anything deserved a sound kicking that piece of asshattery did.  I believe, however, that he didn't play further with that group.

Quote from: Sigmund;221374While I hate the metagame aspect of it and I'm glad I don't have to deal with it anymore, I can definitely agree it's fear inspiring I also agree, it sounds like a very fun game.

I can't speak so much to current versions, but D&D works best when you accept a level of abstraction and just justify it to yourself however works.  Overthinking the mechanics rarely leads to happiness.

If, as at times I've found myself in the past, you can't get with that abstraction or justify it to yourself then all I can say is that's why god made Runequest.

So, I figure we're bigass heros who can take wounds that would down a normal man, hence hit points, and I reckon that undead drain your life force so leaving you weakened and less capable.  It's a fudge, but provided you don't  poke it too hard, it's a workable fudge.

If you have to poke, again, I refer you to the ever excellent Runequest :-)

Quote from: Balbinus;221376There's a chap on rpg.net, I've had a drink with him once and believe him on this, who once tried out with a new group and when his character got injured the GM pulled out a paintgun from under the table and shot him in the chest at point blank range.

Hurt like hell I understand, and ruined the new white shirt he was wearing by chance that day.  The GM explained it let the player understand the pain the character was experiencing.

He's a nice chap this chap, and luckily for the GM in question not a fellow prone to fist based conflict resolution mechanics, as if anything deserved a sound kicking that piece of asshattery did.  I believe, however, that he didn't play further with that group.

Holy shit. I'da yanked the paintgun away from the jerk and beat him with it. Criminy.

Quote from: Sigmund;221378Holy shit. I'da yanked the paintgun away from the jerk and beat him with it. Criminy.

It does seem to me a high risk gambit with new players, it's worth mentioning it happened in Britain though, which at least minimises the risk of return fire.

I'd love to see that GM try that in Texas...

Quote from: Balbinus;221376Hurt like hell I understand, and ruined the new white shirt he was wearing by chance that day.  The GM explained it let the player understand the pain the character was experiencing.

He's a nice chap this chap, and luckily for the GM in question not a fellow prone to fist based conflict resolution mechanics, as if anything deserved a sound kicking that piece of asshattery did.  I believe, however, that he didn't play further with that group.

WTF :eek:

That'd be an instant game-ender right there.  I would have lost my cool for sure.

Quote from: Balbinus;221379It does seem to me a high risk gambit with new players, it's worth mentioning it happened in Britain though, which at least minimises the risk of return fire.

I'd love to see that GM try that in Texas...

:rotfl: