Quote from: TonyLBY'know, I'm fairly sure that's not how I market.

That's true. Your personal shtick is fake-naive.

:singdance: Phony Tony, Phony Tony, Phony Tony... :singdance:

Quote from: jhkimUm? :what:

 

Let me get this straight -- you claim no one who likes D&D puts down WoD games or indie RPGs?  Say, like, calling them "failed writers" or claim that they game to inflate their egos instead of to have fun?

Oh, well, I will say I totally believe that the forgies game to inflate their egos, rather than to have fun. I consider that to be objectively true.

Quote from: droogYou're talking about WotC again, aren't you?

No; Malcolm said he thought WotC was doing that at some point which I thought was interesting.

Tony--fake naive, yup. Starting with self-identifying with the allegedly made-up group. Remember, there is no Story Now movement.

Quote from: Abyssal MawI consider that to be objectively true.

I don't know about anybody else, but I've had fun playing various Forgenik games. I've also had fun playing them with people who know nothing about the politics of the online RPG world, so could hardly be accused of playing for ego.

Now that is empirical evidence that contradicts your objective truth.

Quote from: jhkimThere are D&D fans who insist that its popularity is a mark of superior quality than the fringe..

Not popularity, community.  Also objectively true. The game with the biggest and best community wins. The same way the wiki site with the biggest and the most diverse community wins.

Quote from: droogI don't know about anybody else, but I've had fun playing various Forgenik games. I've also had fun playing them with people who know nothing about the politics of the online RPG world, so could hardly be accused of playing for ego.

Same here.

There's a thread on tBP . Both Marco & Paka make a lot of sense about the Forge, it's games and designers. Dwight is also contributing . He too makes some interesting points.

I think it would have been much more interesting if there was no "theory" as such but designers were creating these hippy games and posting about their design process on blogs or maybe forums.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Abyssal MawNot popularity, community.  Also objectively true. The game with the biggest and best community wins. The same way the wiki site with the biggest and the most diverse community wins.

What exactly do you win?  Cookies?  A merit badge?  Dubious bragging rights that your small niche is slightly less small than someone else's small niche?  

EDIT: Fair enough.  It is true that small-press games like Forward To Adventure!, Squirrel Attack, Dogs in the Vineyard, etc. are a much smaller niche than D&D.

Quote from: jhkimWhat exactly do you win?  Cookies?  A merit badge?  Dubious bragging rights that your small niche is slightly less small than someone else's small niche?  

slightly?

:haw:

Quote from: Abyssal MawNot popularity, community.  Also objectively true. The game with the biggest and best community wins. The same way the wiki site with the biggest and the most diverse community wins.

So the winner is...

GaiaOnline?

Vampires on Facebook

Or is the objective truth really based on the entirely subjective definition of "best" community?

Whoever wins, I better get a fucking cut since I started this thread.

Quote from: jhkimThere are D&D fans who insist that its popularity is a mark of superior quality than the fringe..

Quote from: Abyssal MawNot popularity, community.  Also objectively true.

Seriously, if you can't use the word properly, pick a different word. Saying, "objectively" doesn't grant you holy power, particularly when you're using it wrong.

That D&D has a larger community is [probably] objectively true. That this makes it "of superior quality" is not.

Quote from: Abyssal MawThe game with the biggest and best community wins.

There is no victory condition for roleplaying. You're very fond of this word, "wins," but not once have I seen you use it in any way indicative of victory. Please, find a different word. "The game with the biggest community is easiest to play," or, "The game with the biggest community is likely to have the most financial success." Those are statements which can be analyzed and debated and judged on their merits. "I win because more people talk about my game," is not.

Also, "biggest" does not equal "best," so if you'd like to show how the D&D community is "best," you'll either need to qualify it ["in my opinion"] or use some other, more meaningful word.

Maw's on to something here.  He's talking about TRPGs as a business entity, and as TRPGs are just below telephones in their dependence upon network externalities and the network effect for deriving utility and relevance the size of a TRPG's network of players--what he calls "community"--does matter a great deal towards its success as a business as well as its influence in both the hobby and the business of TRPGs.

By the same argument, however, all MMORPGs are objectively better than all TRPGs, and World of Warcraft is the best damn RPG ever published because it has over 10 million people with open, active (i.e. used and playing) accounts- and unlike D&D, you can play it solo when you're either unwilling or unable to get a group going and the game is far more casual and user-friendly than any TRPG.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerMaw's on to something here.  He's talking about TRPGs as a business entity, and as TRPGs are just below telephones in their dependence upon network externalities and the network effect for deriving utility and relevance the size of a TRPG's network of players--what he calls "community"--does matter a great deal towards its success as a business as well as its influence in both the hobby and the business of TRPGs.

By the same argument, however, all MMORPGs are objectively better than all TRPGs

Well, I'll certainly agree that more players is a win for the people who are selling the game.  I mean, hell, they get more than cookies -- they get dough!!

But I don't see what the people who play it win, objectively speaking.

Quote from: Bradford C. WalkerMaw's on to something here.  He's talking about TRPGs as a business entity, and as TRPGs are just below telephones in their dependence upon network externalities and the network effect for deriving utility and relevance the size of a TRPG's network of players--what he calls "community"--does matter a great deal towards its success as a business as well as its influence in both the hobby and the business of TRPGs.

By the same argument, however, all MMORPGs are objectively better than all TRPGs, and World of Warcraft is the best damn RPG ever published because it has over 10 million people with open, active (i.e. used and playing) accounts- and unlike D&D, you can play it solo when you're either unwilling or unable to get a group going and the game is far more casual and user-friendly than any TRPG.

Bradford gets me, he is objectively true, and he wins!

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.