Um, it's called marketing fluff and WotC dishes it out too. I'll go over for a quick peek what's there right now.....there you go, 30 seconds to track down a quote for so-called pretentiousness.

"The Player’s Handbook presents the official Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game rules as well as everything a player needs to create D&D characters worthy of song and legend"

It's just some guy writing colourful ad copy, helping paint a picture about what you'll be imagining happening. Or not I guess if you think it's pretentious to imagine being somewhere else, as someone else (or a thinly veiled copy of yourself) doing things you wouldn't really be doing or be viewing/experiencing directly yourself.

D&D to me is like McDonald's; you can walk into any game anywhere and it will always pretty much be exactly the same. Play the same class a dozen times and, barring creative multiclassing, you'll get more or less the same mechanical experience every time.

And I don't mean this as a criticism.

Quote from: DwightUm, it's called marketing fluff and WotC dishes it out too. I'll go over for a quick peek what's there right now.....there you go, 30 seconds to track down a quote for so-called pretentiousness.

"The Player's Handbook presents the official Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game rules as well as everything a player needs to create D&D characters worthy of song and legend"

It's just some guy writing colourful ad copy, helping paint a picture about what you'll be imagining happening. Or not I guess if you think it's pretentious to imagine being somewhere else, as someone else (or a thinly veiled copy of yourself) doing things you wouldn't really be doing or be viewing/experiencing directly yourself.

How is that pretentious? It is a game about fantasy. Fantasy is based on song and legend.

I'm not talking about the "our game is awesome" kind of marketing that everyone does. I'm talking about games that pretend that playing them makes you better than people playing other games. Games that pretend to be art or therapy or some other bs.

The text you quote claims none of these things.

Quote from: ConanMKThe text you quote claims none of these things.

No, it makes different pretentious claims about legends and songs. But hey, feel free to join the fun and roll out examples too!  It should be really easy, right?

ConanMK: Well, if game is desingen to support roleplay over rollplay it's OK to advertise it like that and it isn't pretentious at all... and in majority of three forge games I own there is nothing about writing that game is "cool" and "inovative" instead of writing about mechanics and in the last one there is slight hints of this, but very very slight...

Well, note that lots of forge games aren't pretentious in any way, for example Nicotine Girls (and this game is real gem, just try playing it, and if you play this while drunk it's even better!)

Well it looks like you guys have abetter idea of what I was saying now and the kinds of games I was refering to. You still disagree and that is fine.

I have no desire to turn this into a drawn out argument or to try and change anyone elses oppinion. My initial post was simply an answer to the opening post. I'm content to leave it as a list without turning this into a thesis with citations, examples and research.

I have never played or even read Nicotine Girls, so I can not comment on whether or not I find it pretentious. I generally avoid Forge games that seem to want to try and limit me and my RPG group to fitting into one of their narrowly defined "GNS" boxes. I generally prefer more traditional games with more of a modular toolkit approach.

ConanMK: You should try some Forge games then... I sugest you to try Nicotine Girls (it's short, free and won some sort of award), Mountain Witch and My Life with Master also aren't that bad, well try to avoid Shab-Al-Hiri Roach as much as possible, this one isn't good...

For some reason I never felt that Nicotine Girls are trying to fit me into some box, the same goes for Mountain Witch and My Life with Master...

Fritzs: It is fascinating, how you are able to derail even your own thread with Forge game marketing.

Quote from: FritzsConanMK: Well, if game is desingen to support roleplay over rollplay it's OK to advertise it like that and it isn't pretentious at all...

Is it possible to use the word "rollplay" in your ad copy and not be pretentious?

I think not.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadIs it possible to use the word "rollplay" in your ad copy and not be pretentious?

I think not.

Why, yes it is.

"This game unabashedly emphasizes rollplay over roleplay." :haw:

I'd buy it, too!

Re. this thread: What AM said. Also, I'm only interested in D&D, not in d20.

Quote from: Caesar SlaadIs it possible to use the word "rollplay" in your ad copy and not be pretentious?

I think not.

Welcome to ad copy, the crafting of pretension. But really that's OK because ad-copy-guy just wants you to know that they "offer the best possible play experience". :cool:

Quote from: Pierce InverarityWhy, yes it is.

"This game unabashedly emphasizes rollplay over roleplay." :haw:

:heh:

Quote from: AlnagFritzs: It is fascinating, how you are able to derail even your own thread with Forge game marketing.

Its kind of hard not to notice the habitual pattern.

Its also one of the reasons why I don't like the Forge, this constant viral marketting.

Quote from: DwightUm, it's called marketing fluff and WotC dishes it out too. I'll go over for a quick peek what's there right now.....there you go, 30 seconds to track down a quote for so-called pretentiousness.

"The Player's Handbook presents the official Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game rules as well as everything a player needs to create D&D characters worthy of song and legend"

How can there be charcters worthy of "song and legend" if there are no Bards in the 4E PHB to perform the songs and recite the legends?

Quote from: FritzsConanMK: You should try some Forge games then... I sugest you to try Nicotine Girls (it's short, free and won some sort of award), Mountain Witch and My Life with Master also aren't that bad, well try to avoid Shab-Al-Hiri Roach as much as possible, this one isn't good...

For some reason I never felt that Nicotine Girls are trying to fit me into some box, the same goes for Mountain Witch and My Life with Master...

This brings up a very different point actually.

I don't know how these games are with playstyle whether or not they are pretentious, but they seem to severely limit your character choices.

Nicotine Girls: A game about low income female smoking addicts does not interest me, particularly if that is the ONLY thing I can play. What? I can't be a rising Punk Rock star who has been smoke free and clean for 3 years? I can't play a private investigator who believes in the paranormal? No zombies??? I'll pass. D20 Modern, True20 and Savage Worlds are better suited for my modern gaming needs.

My Life With Master: Hell I don't want to play the mad scientist's mopey hunchbacked minion.  I want to be the mad scientist! A mad scientist who goes on adventures with a vampire slayer, a witch hunter and a frankenstein monster. I'll just have to look elsewhere. Maybe the upcoming GURPS Girl Genius.

Mountain Witch: Well now we are getting someplace. The concept of playing a samurai in agroup of samurai sounds appealing. Treachery can be fun. I just want to be able to go on a series of adventures instead of having every adventure being a repetitive treck up the same mountain to fight the same witch. I can't go into a cave to fight an ogre? I can't travel west and join a caravan going through the Silk Road? The game has no Ninjas??? Yeah, I'll go play Oriental Adventures or Legends of the Samurai instead.