Which are the best you've played ?

Do you prefer pre-scribed spell lists instead ?

I prefer freeform.

-clash

All my games have both. I prefer free form myself but accept that many folks like spell lists. Its like building powered armor in sci-fi games, some people live for it, other just want what's on the rack.

You can look over the Iridium Free Form via our free download here.

Bill

I've never encountered a freeform magic system that I seriously liked - most demand too much ad-hoc decisions and are too fuzzy ruled to be used all the time in the game.

I still like most the Shadowrun approach, which is mostly a compromise: Pre-defined spells for quick and clear-cut usage, and a spell customization/build system that can be used during downtime to get your custom spells. The last one demands to go through a lot of steps and needs some handwaving where examples are missing (weather control etc.), but it works without much erring and still allows access to personalized spells.

Quote from: SkyrockI've never encountered a freeform magic system that I seriously liked - most demand too much ad-hoc decisions and are too fuzzy ruled to be used all the time in the game.

Same here. I've seen it devolve into the magic-using characters dominating a game session as they work out the details of what they want to accomplish. I'm sure there is a way for such a system to work, I just haven't encountered it yet. And yes, I will check out the links provided by our esteemed resident designers

Quote from: ColonelHardissonSame here. I've seen it devolve into the magic-using characters dominating a game session as they work out the details of what they want to accomplish.

This is what I liked about first edition Mage, IMO one of the best freeform magic systems out there. I think Heroquest has also got a freeform magic system, but I'm still grappling with the system, so I can't really comment.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RThis is what I liked about first edition Mage, IMO one of the best freeform magic systems out there. I think Heroquest has also got a freeform magic system, but I'm still grappling with the system, so I can't really comment.

Regards,
David R

Can you give me a brief description of either of them?

Quote from: David RThis is what I liked about first edition Mage, IMO one of the best freeform magic systems out there. I think Heroquest has also got a freeform magic system, but I'm still grappling with the system, so I can't really comment.

Regards,
David R

See, I had the roughest time with Mage's system. It confused me, my players and we liked free form systems. Personally, though, I think part of the problem was the explanation.

Bill

Quote from: ColonelHardissonSame here. I've seen it devolve into the magic-using characters dominating a game session as they work out the details of what they want to accomplish. I'm sure there is a way for such a system to work, I just haven't encountered it yet. And yes, I will check out the links provided by our esteemed resident designers

See, I countered that with giving clear cut "areas" of power. Usually limited to three. So, Water, Travel and Invisibility means you could teleport or create a wall of water or drown those pesky dark riders as they cross your ford. However, the counter is that if you fail you can either have damage or no effect.

See, you have two checks. One vs CON and one vs Piety. Fail CON and you take damage equal to the modifier you had for the effect. Fail the Piety and no effect goes off. You can have any combination of the two fail/success conditions. Modifiers are directly the domain of the GM and are subjectively set by him. So, Try and make a fire ball with the above areas of power and you probably get a -10 or 15 (checks are on a d20). I have had folks use this system in D20 with WIS instead of Piety.

So, the system can be simple. In practice I have found it runs faster than traditional spells since you aren't looking up spells all the time and arguing about what they mean. You (the GM and Player) are the final arbiters.

Bill

Quote from: ColonelHardissonCan you give me a brief description of either of them?

For Mage heeere's...

wikipedia :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage:_The_Ascension

For HQ maybe droog could say a few words.

(I suck at describing mechanics, hence the link)

Regards,
David R

Quote from: HinterWeltSee, I had the roughest time with Mage's system. It confused me, my players and we liked free form systems. Personally, though, I think part of the problem was the explanation.

I totally get this.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: ColonelHardissonI've seen it devolve into the magic-using characters dominating a game session as they work out the details of what they want to accomplish.

Of course, that couldn't really turn out to be a problem with old Mage, since every notable character used magic as defined in the game, even the scientists...

I like the systems in Mage 2e and Nobilis: wide-open frameworks for every conceivable effect.

GrimGent could you give the Col. a run down of the Mage magic system. From what I've read, you have a good grasp of the system.

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RGrimGent could you give the Col. a run down of the Mage magic system.

For the sake of clarity, the range of all possible magical effects is divided into nine broad categories, known as "Spheres", each rank of which allows a mage to perform and combine specific changes in reality, such as Correspondence 3 ("Pierce Space") for personal teleportation or Forces 2 ("Control Minor Forces") to disperse any sounds that he might make into silence, or both of them together for completely silent teleportation. What exactly became possible with further individual ranks varied considerably over the editions as the effects gradually grew more structured and codified, to the point that Mage: The Awakening has now adopted more general rank descriptions which cover all the categories.

So the ranks which a chararacter holds in each Sphere determine what he's capable of, in theory. In practice, the dice pool available for these actions is measured by the mage's Arete stat (his degree of enlightenment), and the base difficulty of the attempt is determined not only by the highest Sphere rank involved but also by whether the effects are considered "vulgar" or "coincidental", loosely based on what an average unsuspecting witness would accept as possible. (These definitions have always been one of the major causes of Mage flamewars, incidentally.) Gain enough successes, over several rolls if necessary, and you can pull the moon down from the sky. Botch, and reality begins to ripple as the unconscious consensus of humanity instinctively strives to re-establish the status quo, possibly leading to paradox backlashes which at their worst can erase the offending mage from existence.

I have no idea what edition of Mage I played, I think it was 2E.  I loved that system too death, ever since the day I realized that with a minimal effort and training my Heremetic Mage could alter the amperage and voltage of the electrical signals in a person's nervous system.

Oh yeah.  Kick up the amperage of the microvoltage and suddenly you're whole nervous system is screaming in pain.  Kick up the voltage, and watch the sparks fly!  Fucking AWESOME.

I love free form magic systems just because you get way more "How shit, if I do X, then Y happens, and that is made of awesome!" sort of moments.  Rigid predefined spells tend to discourage creativity, just because they tend to shape your imagination.