Quote from: Ian AbsentiaThat's not the impression I got at all.  I think he was poking the blind eye in hopes that it might come into focus and see that this sort of creepiness happens pretty much everywhere, but mainfesting in different forms.

OK, so if we acknowledge that (and I do), what does it mean with respect to the other points being made in this discussion?  OK, so there are probably pedophiles in every country and creepy practices that sexualize children in almost every culture.  So what does that mean with respect to the production of child pornography only being stopped in Japan in the late 1990s, the possession of child pornography still being legal in Japan, or the depiction of minors (both teenagers and pre-teen) in hentai manga and anime?

Quote from: John MorrowWhy do we need a reminder?

Why don't we ?

Regards,
David R

Clearly it means that the Japanese are dirty, dirty fucks. At least by our prudish standards.

!i!

Quote from: David RWhy don't we ?

Because we're already well aware of it?

Quote from: John MorrowBecause we're already well aware of it?

Really ? You sure about that ?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaClearly it means that the Japanese are dirty, dirty fucks. At least by our prudish standards.

So now one needs to be a prude to be offended by the depiction of children involved in sex acts?  So if we weren't such awful prudes, we'd see just how OK it is?

Quote from: David RReally ? You sure about that ?

Which brings us back around to my point about squeamishness about criticizing other cultures because of course we'd only do that if we didn't realize how awful our own culture was, right?

Quote from: John MorrowWhich brings us back around to my point about squeamishness about criticizing other cultures because of course we'd only do that if we didn't realize how awful our own culture was, right?

I don't know John, is this the case? Seems to me the subject matter of this particular conversation is wide enough to accomadate both American and Japanese culture. After all when criticizing another's culture, yours is fair game esp in an issue -the sexualization of children - with far reaching implications as this. I mentioned my country , why not yours?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: John MorrowSo now one needs to be a prude to be offended by the depiction of children involved in sex acts?  So if we weren't such awful prudes, we'd see just how OK it is?

Absolutley.  Clearly we're sick, prudish fucks. At least by their decadent standards.

!i!

Quote from: David RI don't know John, is this the case? Seems to me the subject matter of this particular conversation is wide enough to accomadate both American and Japanese culture. After all when criticizing another's culture, yours is fair game esp in an issue -the sexualization of children - with far reaching implications as this. I mentioned my country , why not yours?

By all means start a thread on the broader topic or specifically on the problems in the United States.  I'd be happy to criticize various aspects of American culture from those "beauty pageants" to the slut-wear that major retail chains sell for little girls when it comes to the sexualization of children.  But when it's introduced into a thread specifically discussing one culture, it has an effect not unlike a stage magician moving an object around in one hand while they perform a trick in the other.  It's a way of diverting attention the to specific practices at hand.  You'll notice that people have been drawing the discussion further and further away from the original article, which talks about UNICEF is specifically singling Japan out because of lax standards with respect to real child pornography depicting real children, the production of which they only stopped (due to international pressure) in 1999.  And this goes back to the quote of mine that Malleus Arianorum uses in his signature here, "That's pretty much how post modernism works. Keep dismissing details until there is nothing left, and then declare that it meant nothing all along."  By turning attention from and ignoring the details, it's easy to dismiss things.  Bear in mind that I spent over a year living in Japan, enjoyed my time living there, and have a great deal of fondness for the country, people, and culture.  But like the racism that's still all too common in American culture, this is an element of Japanese culture that's really not worth defending.

Quote from: Ian AbsentiaAbsolutley.  Clearly we're sick, prudish fucks. At least by their decadent standards.

Then I'm happy to be one, just as I'm happy to be a "race traitor" as far as white supremacists are concerned.

Quote from: John MorrowThen I'm happy to be one, just as I'm happy to be a "race traitor" as far as white supremacists are concerned.

Dirty fence-straddler.

!i!

Quote from: John MorrowBy all means start a thread on the broader topic or specifically on the problems in the United States.  I'd be happy to criticize various aspects of American culture from those "beauty pageants" to the slut-wear that major retail chains sell for little girls when it comes to the sexualization of children.  But when it's introduced into a thread specifically discussing one culture, it has an effect not unlike a stage magician moving an object around in one hand while they perform a trick in the other.  It's a way of diverting attention the to specific practices at hand.  You'll notice that people have been drawing the discussion further and further away from the original article, which talks about UNICEF is specifically singling Japan out because of lax standards with respect to real child pornography depicting real children, the production of which they only stopped (due to international pressure) in 1999.  And this goes back to the quote of mine that Malleus Arianorum uses in his signature here, "That's pretty much how post modernism works. Keep dismissing details until there is nothing left, and then declare that it meant nothing all along."  By turning attention from and ignoring the details, it's easy to dismiss things.  Bear in mind that I spent over a year living in Japan, enjoyed my time living there, and have a great deal of fondness for the country, people, and culture.  But like the racism that's still all too common in American culture, this is an element of Japanese culture that's really not worth defending.

I doubt any of this has to do with postmodern sleight of hand, but rather the perception of hypocrisy which permeates any discussion where participants comment on anothers culture. When John Kim and you were discussing "fuzzy math" within the American context , nobody brought up any other culture in a meaningful way , because it was two Americans discussing their "own issues". I don't see any evidence of anyone defending the more "negative" aspects of Japanes culture by commenting on the similar problems apparent in American culture or is this a different type of rhetorical sleight of hand, to imply that drawing attention to the bigger picture is evidence of dodging the issue?

Regards,
David R

Quote from: David RI doubt any of this has to do with postmodern sleight of hand, but rather the perception of hypocrisy which permeates any discussion where participants comment on anothers culture. When John Kim and you were discussing "fuzzy math" within the American context , nobody brought up any other culture in a meaningful way , because it was two Americans discussing their "own issues". I don't see any evidence of anyone defending the more "negative" aspects of Japanes culture by commenting on the similar problems apparent in American culture or is this a different type of rhetorical sleight of hand, to imply that drawing attention to the bigger picture is evidence of dodging the issue?

Which brings us back, yet again, to what I said: "typical squeamishness about criticizing another culture no matter what it is".  I said it was either that or making excuses for Japan.  People keep saying that's not it and then wind up saying, yeah, that is it.  Why not just say that you don't think it's appropriate to comment negatively on someone else's culture?

Quote from: John MorrowWhich brings us back, yet again, to what I said: "typical squeamishness about criticizing another culture no matter what it is".  I said it was either that or making excuses for Japan.  People keep saying that's not it and then wind up saying, yeah, that is it.  Why not just say that you don't think it's appropriate to comment negatively on someone else's culture?

I think you're seeing what you want to see, John.  Poking the eye of hypocrisy isn't "squeamishness" about criticising another culture, it's spreading the love around. As David pointed out quite clearly, no one was defending the more egregious social issues in Japan; instead, the discussion rapidly shifted from an accusation against the Japanese to consideration of the root problem, regardless of cultures or borders.

!i!