Quote from: fixable on December 03, 2021, 02:47:17 AM

Quote from: Ka'arl Sorcerer of Cha'alt on November 10, 2021, 04:25:39 AM
I just watched the video "Maw of the Mike" where they talk about DCCRPG becoming more inclusive by changing all pronouns to they in not just all future products but going back through the entire back catalog as well to make changes to be more inclusive.

They want to be less inclusive in their games and only be for leftists that's fine by me, my friends and I can move on to a different game.

So much easier to just use 'they/them'. You don't have to assume gender and you can allow anyone to self identify as they see fit. If you don't like it, just substitute "they" for "him" or "her" (based on your prefered pronoun) everywhere. So easy.

This thread is just people complaining about the dumbest things.

If they were talking about making the change in works produced going forward, then I can see the argument for the kvetching being a tempest in a teacup. However, spending resources to re-edit the entire back catalog seems, to me, to be a waste of resources that could be going into the creation of new products. Especially as I don't see that effort resulting in an increase in sales. But I could be wrong. Time will tell.

As such, it doesn't seem dumb to me to discuss (and even complain) about the topic. YMMV.

Also considered in the thread are their convention rules. It does not seem, to me, to be unreasonable/dumb to discuss/complain about them. Again, YMMV.

And don't forget, the internet is a commutation's tool used the world over, where people can come together to bitch about stuff and share pornography with one another.   

Quote from: fixable on December 03, 2021, 02:47:17 AM

So much easier to just use 'they/them'. You don't have to assume gender and you can allow anyone to self identify as they see fit. If you don't like it, just substitute "they" for "him" or "her" (based on your prefered pronoun) everywhere. So easy.

For new content, sure, it isn't a big deal- you already are adjusting things in the editing process (including dealing with pagination issues where changing "he" to "they" causes text to spill over to a new page). Retrofitting existing text, ugh. I tweaked the rules for a strategic level game which had a few pages of rules covering individuals and these sections covered beings that could be humanoids (presumably two biological sexes, but not relevant to the game if it was one, two, or 57), sentient plants, AIs, etc. using "he" (in the gender inclusive usage) didn't fit well. It wasn't the best use of my time switching over to "they". For a RPG, where you are dealing with individual characters (or NPCs) throughout the text, this would be a major time sink to adjust (vs. a minor level of effort to just fix reported typos and the like). Me, I'd rather have their editing staff work on new products, not burn person days to person months changing an already printed product (even if it randomly used xie, xir, he, she, they, ... and mismatched them between sentences [Bob is foo. He is also bar. In addition, xie is baz.] for various examples).

Seriously. And I say this as someone who annoys the heck out of coworkers because he carries a red pen (plus the blue or black one) so I can correct crimes against grammar in memos and paperwork I am asked to read and sign off on.

Quote from: fixable on December 03, 2021, 02:47:17 AM

Quote from: Ka'arl Sorcerer of Cha'alt on November 10, 2021, 04:25:39 AM
I just watched the video "Maw of the Mike" where they talk about DCCRPG becoming more inclusive by changing all pronouns to they in not just all future products but going back through the entire back catalog as well to make changes to be more inclusive.

They want to be less inclusive in their games and only be for leftists that's fine by me, my friends and I can move on to a different game.

So much easier to just use 'they/them'. You don't have to assume gender and you can allow anyone to self identify as they see fit. If you don't like it, just substitute "they" for "him" or "her" (based on your prefered pronoun) everywhere. So easy.

This thread is just people complaining about the dumbest things.

Use they for he or she is one thing, but using they (rather than them) for him or her is simply abhorrent.

I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

That would be funny but the woke crowd would reject it because, besides being the enemies of fun, they tend to have a weak sense of self and don't actually like role playing much. They prefer playing dress up with a fantastical and quirky and often animal-hybrid (aka furry) version of their precious identity. Role playing the other gender would be "problematic."

As for DCC, a mere 9 years ago, Goodperson Games agreed that "he" was gender neutral and went with that. Their conviction is apparently so weak that they are re-working old publications, despite DCC being very popular with women, trans, and pretty much everyone who enjoys a wild game. Apparently "he" was so disturbing to women that it caused the public table I played at for a long time to regularly be at 50% or more women.

Quote from: fixable on December 03, 2021, 02:47:17 AM

Quote from: Ka'arl Sorcerer of Cha'alt on November 10, 2021, 04:25:39 AM
I just watched the video "Maw of the Mike" where they talk about DCCRPG becoming more inclusive by changing all pronouns to they in not just all future products but going back through the entire back catalog as well to make changes to be more inclusive.

They want to be less inclusive in their games and only be for leftists that's fine by me, my friends and I can move on to a different game.

So much easier to just use 'they/them'. You don't have to assume gender and you can allow anyone to self identify as they see fit. If you don't like it, just substitute "they" for "him" or "her" (based on your prefered pronoun) everywhere. So easy.

This thread is just people complaining about the dumbest things.

Logically if you use he/him then you save 2/1 letters that can then be used for more important words like diversity.

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM
I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

HarnMaster where you generate your astrological SunSign. They almost hit Aftermath levels of  complicated. Still it is an amazing setting.

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

I've NEVER met an old-school gamer who prefers to spend 4 hours doing meticulous minmaxing with a point-buy system rather than 2 minutes rolling six stats and some random tables. Not a fucking one.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 05, 2021, 01:51:57 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

I've NEVER met an old-school gamer who prefers to spend 4 hours doing meticulous minmaxing with a point-buy system rather than 2 minutes rolling six stats and some random tables. Not a fucking one.

Facts.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 05, 2021, 01:51:57 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

I've NEVER met an old-school gamer who prefers to spend 4 hours doing meticulous minmaxing with a point-buy system rather than 2 minutes rolling six stats and some random tables. Not a fucking one.

This is quite obviously a classic case of a "no TRUE old school gamer" fallacy.

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 05, 2021, 01:51:57 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

I've NEVER met an old-school gamer who prefers to spend 4 hours doing meticulous minmaxing with a point-buy system rather than 2 minutes rolling six stats and some random tables. Not a fucking one.

Especially when you can go online and pull perfectly good minmaxed builds for various classes in five minutes.

Quote from: HappyDaze on December 05, 2021, 03:37:17 PM

Quote from: RPGPundit on December 05, 2021, 01:51:57 PM

Quote from: jhkim on December 03, 2021, 07:43:20 PM

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

In my experience, neither old-school nor new-school gamers like generating character gender randomly. There's probably a small minority who enjoy it. I used to generate my HarnMaster characters that way, but I rarely did it in other games.

I've NEVER met an old-school gamer who prefers to spend 4 hours doing meticulous minmaxing with a point-buy system rather than 2 minutes rolling six stats and some random tables. Not a fucking one.

This is quite obviously a classic case of a "no TRUE old school gamer" fallacy.

In my experience there is no such thing as an old school gamer, let alone a Scottish one.

Quote from: Ka'arl Sorcerer of Cha'alt on November 10, 2021, 04:25:39 AM
I just watched the video "Maw of the Mike" where they talk about DCCRPG becoming more inclusive by changing all pronouns to they in not just all future products but going back through the entire back catalog as well to make changes to be more inclusive.

They want to be less inclusive in their games and only be for leftists that's fine by me, my friends and I can move on to a different game.

Wind back the clock 30 years and White Wolf were doing this by referring to ST/PCs in the rule book as women. At least 50% at the time. And certain people whined.

The sort of person I'd be glad to be rid of is the sort of person who takes a little token change like this and turns it into a "sky is falling" scenario.

(People are awfully keen on socialism when their house burns down or their house gets broken into. Awfully keen on Leftist ideas when they want to drive on the freeway or have working streetlights. Fabulously keen on the Left when they have a standing army and don't have to raise their own army to protect their shit. But goodness, change a pronoun and they lose their shit.)

Quote from: Ruprecht on December 03, 2021, 10:38:40 AM
I want to see one of these woke companies create a table to generate your characters (or NPC) gender randomly. That would be super-entertaining.

I pretty much do that for my own PCs. I usually roll percentile: 01-49 male, 51-00 female. 50 one of the pronoun people <- this has yet to occur, but I imagine it will involve rolling again on a much more longer table.