I just watched the video "Maw of the Mike" where they talk about DCCRPG becoming more inclusive by changing all pronouns to they in not just all future products but going back through the entire back catalog as well to make changes to be more inclusive.

They want to be less inclusive in their games and only be for leftists that's fine by me, my friends and I can move on to a different game.

I saw that video too. Goodman Games just made it very easy to not buy any of their new products.

Another one bites the dust.

Not surprised. There's been small hints leading up to this.

It's a small change, and I'm not going to burn my copy of DCC over it. But it is a stupid change, and a prelude to a company becoming the kind of groveling shitheads who knock themselves out over activist demands at the cost of making decent RPGs.

If that's the worst thing they do, I can live with it. When they start changing the actual gameplay or apologize for their evil orcs, then I'll get worried.

Agree. Most of designers are leftist these days. But there is difference between that and WOKE.
Like in wishing to kill unWoke or make public statements about not needing unWoke money.

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 10, 2021, 06:38:41 AM
If that's the worst thing they do, I can live with it. When they start changing the actual gameplay or apologize for their evil orcs, then I'll get worried.

Its still an agenda platform and will likely infect more with the woke disease that will become a problem sooner or later. And keep in mind this can and will be used to force others into compliance wherever they think they can get away with it. And unfortunately all too often people will knuckle under rather than resist because the threat of being attacked is increasingly real.

That's the battlefield that can be fought mostly by wallets I think.

There is some diagram of wokeness vs quality and everyone has to answer where those line cross for him to make point of no longer supporting.

Quote from: World_Warrior on November 10, 2021, 06:38:41 AM
If that's the worst thing they do, I can live with it. When they start changing the actual gameplay or apologize for their evil orcs, then I'll get worried.

That's where I am at. I don't know if changing pronouns will bring more women into DCC, but it seems innocuous. That said, it does have the potential to be a step onto the slippery slope.

If they do go woke, I will just keep playing with the materials that I have in-hand. Beyond the rules, my GG/DCC purchases have been more to support the company that out of a real need for game material.

And it would be interesting to see how they would square the circle of Appendix N and woke.

Quote from: dkabq on November 10, 2021, 07:18:46 AMThat's where I am at. I don't know if changing pronouns will bring more women into DCC, but it seems innocuous. That said, it does have the potential to be a step onto the slippery slope.

Any woman, or guy for that matter, that will only play a game if it uses politically correct pronouns isn't a person you would want to join your game or hobby in the first place.

It calls to mind this passage in the Rules Cyclopedia

QuotePronoun Note
The male pronouns (he, him, his) are used throughout this book. We hope this won't be interpreted by anyone as an attempt to exclude females from the game or to imply their exclusion.
Centuries of use have made these pronouns neutral, and we feel their use provides for clear and concise written text.

I wonder if the editors realised at the time that this would be the first slippery step.

The male pronouns (he, him, his) have been used for centuries as neutral gender. If this gets your panties in a bunch, man up!

As a society, we probably deserve ruination if we are unable to have enough backbone to hear the demands of activists acting like petulant children and either ignoring them or laughing in their faces (a response of "Go fuck yourself" works well too.)

From the moment the first business caved in when confronted with Jesse Jackson's or Al Sharpton's extortion, to the trembling in their $2000 shoes of politicians at the ridiculous demands of Greta Thunberg - it all leads to people acting like children throwing tantrums at every turn.

We need responsible adults to respond to these demands with the equivalent of the backhand to them mouth, or dad getting his belt...  Whether that means public humiliation of these SJWs, more Kenosha Hat Tricks, whatever.  Very few are willing and able to do so.

Quote from: mightybrain on November 10, 2021, 07:57:09 AM
It calls to mind this passage in the Rules Cyclopedia

QuotePronoun Note
The male pronouns (he, him, his) are used throughout this book. We hope this won't be interpreted by anyone as an attempt to exclude females from the game or to imply their exclusion.
Centuries of use have made these pronouns neutral, and we feel their use provides for clear and concise written text.

I wonder if the editors realised at the time that this would be the first slippery step.

The male pronouns (he, him, his) have been used for centuries as neutral gender. If this gets your panties in a bunch, man up!

IMO, using "they" is a nothing burger in the larger view. It's the most gender neutral pronoun we have.

If they start using Xe or some crap, then I'd be concerned.

Quote from: mightybrain on November 10, 2021, 07:57:09 AM
It calls to mind this passage in the Rules Cyclopedia

QuotePronoun Note
The male pronouns (he, him, his) are used throughout this book. We hope this won't be interpreted by anyone as an attempt to exclude females from the game or to imply their exclusion.
Centuries of use have made these pronouns neutral, and we feel their use provides for clear and concise written text.

I wonder if the editors realised at the time that this would be the first slippery step.

The male pronouns (he, him, his) have been used for centuries as neutral gender. If this gets your panties in a bunch, man up!

They and them are plural pronouns - anyone who wants you use these words to refer to a single person is essentially stating "there is more than one of me." Having multiple personalities is a mental disorder, last I recall

Quote from: 3catcircus on November 10, 2021, 08:13:50 AM
As a society, we probably deserve ruination if we are unable to have enough backbone to hear the demands of activists acting like petulant children and either ignoring them or laughing in their faces (a response of "Go fuck yourself" works well too.)

From the moment the first business caved in when confronted with Jesse Jackson's or Al Sharpton's extortion, to the trembling in their $2000 shoes of politicians at the ridiculous demands of Greta Thunberg - it all leads to people acting like children throwing tantrums at every turn.

We need responsible adults to respond to these demands with the equivalent of the backhand to them mouth, or dad getting his belt...  Whether that means public humiliation of these SJWs, more Kenosha Hat Tricks, whatever.  Very few are willing and able to do so.

Sadly, I have to concur. But it's easy to forget that sometimes, standing firm is hard.

People forget how much bullshit Jackson and Sharpton got away with. Sharpton, in fact, has his finances arranged in such a way that it's impossible to enforce civil judgements against him -- legally, he has no assets or income. There are at least two civil judgements that have yet to extract a dime (one from the Tawana Brawley case, the other relating back to the Crown Heights riots IIRC).

And back in their heyday -- this was pre-Internet, too! -- they were GOOD at their scam. Sidle up to a company, comment about how they needed more 'minority representation', and casually infer a threat of boycotts and protests. Jackson's star only fell once he got caught knocking up one of his subordinates in Rainbow PUSH; Sharpton is still around, like a cockroach with 20 points of damage reduction.

Getting back to the subject at hand though, normally this would not bother me. What DOES bother me is that they go out of their way to talk about it, instead of just writing future books to use 'they' or alternating 'he' and 'she'. Which says to me 'look at us! look how sensitive we are!'.

QuoteThey and them are plural pronouns - anyone who wants you use these words to refer to a single person is essentially stating "there is more than one of me." Having multiple personalities is a mental disorder, last I recall

I'm not English native speaker but I'm quite sure I've read using singular they as gender neutral/gender unknown is centuries old form in English, and is way older than any multiple-personality-disorder woke bullshit.