Quote from: Chris24601 on March 06, 2021, 12:23:28 PM

Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.

Frankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).

Yes, belly-dancers for instance. That's another group that has cleaned up its reputation considerably. Even if some belly dance teachers say that it "has to do with fertility" . However, in many of these cases it may have been understood that, for a while at least, the performer belonged to one (often prominent) member of the audience only.

To close the loop re: geishas and with reference to the opening post belly dancer is a French term but originally were known as almeh.  Supposedly oriignally a respectable type of dancer it's not clear exactly when they became a class of courtesan.  Certainly from a Western perspective from the 19th century they were synonomous with erotic dancing.  Their role eventually became connected with the qiyan which were a class of slave girl trained in entertainment in the Islamic world.   

The connection is that qiyan have been compared with the geishas of Japan in their role as trained companions for male patrons, though with many differences. (Dwight F. Reynolds, 'The Qiyan of al-Andalus', in Concubines and Courtesans: Women and Slavery in Islamic History)

Almeh and Qiyan might both provide interesting terms in a fantasy setting rather than belly dancer or slave girl.

Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 05, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
I was recently surprised to learn that "cobbler" was not a synonym for shoemaker.  Oh, no.  Cobbler is the English form of Cordswainer, which is a person who makes higher quality footwear (often boots) out of better leather--originally, Corduroy.  The lowly shoemaker is not on this exalted plane and often wasn't even allowed to form a guild.  Thus you have the powerful cobbler's guild and the poor, humble shoemaker in the same society.

The un-curate's egg-ed version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordwainer

I hadn't looked at the Harlot Tables in years.  Revisiting them, I can't help but think of the "level titles" of AD&D. 

Harlot
Requirements: Con:9, Cha:12
Hit Dice: d6
Level   Experience   Hit Dice   Title   Special Features
1   0-1,500   1d6   Trull   Oldest Profession[1d6], Pennyroyal Tea, Tools Of The Trade
2      2d6   Strumpet   "I hear things..."
3      3d6   Trollop   "I can take it"[+2], Oldest Profession [2d6], Thief Skills
4      4d6   Streetwalker   Friends in Low Places
5      5d6   Tart   Inspire Confidence
6      6d6   Wench   Oldest Profession [3d6],
7      7d6   Doxy   "I can take it."[+4]
8      8d6   Courtesan   Friends In High Places
9      9d6   Madam   House Of Ill-Repute,
10      9d6+1 hp per level after 9th   Madam   

I feel Streetwalker would be below Trollop and Tart above Wench.

QuoteFrankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).

Various settings may need more or less backgrounds anyway TBH. This is much more setting dependent element that classes (at least non-mag ones) - so you know you change settings you cut off / add new backgrounds.

Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on March 08, 2021, 07:45:02 AM
Various settings may need more or less backgrounds anyway TBH. This is much more setting dependent element that classes (at least non-mag ones) - so you know you change settings you cut off / add new backgrounds.

My backgrounds are fairly broad because they're as mechanically weighty as classes are in my system (vs. two skills, a tool proficiency/language and a minor rp-focused trait in 5e). Each background has enough options for three max level PCs to share a background with no overlap unless you desire to have overlap.

The official background list is arcanist, aristocrat, artisan, barbarian, commoner, entertainer, military, outlaw, religious, and traveler... which includes a fair degree of overlap; a wealthy traveling merchant might be an aristocrat, artisan or traveler depending on the specifics and priorities. Similarly, the line between a barbarian, commoner, outlaw and traveler can be quite blurred in a frontier village.

Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 07, 2021, 09:08:15 AM
I hadn't looked at the Harlot Tables in years.  Revisiting them, I can't help but think of the "level titles" of AD&D. 

Harlot
Requirements: Con:9, Cha:12
Hit Dice: d6
Level   Experience   Hit Dice   Title   Special Features
1   0-1,500   1d6   Trull   Oldest Profession[1d6], Pennyroyal Tea, Tools Of The Trade
2      2d6   Strumpet   "I hear things..."
3      3d6   Trollop   "I can take it"[+2], Oldest Profession [2d6], Thief Skills
4      4d6   Streetwalker   Friends in Low Places
5      5d6   Tart   Inspire Confidence
6      6d6   Wench   Oldest Profession [3d6],
7      7d6   Doxy   "I can take it."[+4]
8      8d6   Courtesan   Friends In High Places
9      9d6   Madam   House Of Ill-Repute,
10      9d6+1 hp per level after 9th   Madam

I, for one, would like to see a full-blown (wink wink) Prostitute class for AD&D. Reminds me of junior high.

Quote from: Brad on March 08, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
I, for one, would like to see a full-blown (wink wink) Prostitute class for AD&D. Reminds me of junior high.

Been done in I believe an early edition of White Dwarf.

Found one, kinda. The Houri in issue 13, a sort of seductress magic-user class.

Probably more in one of the magazines.

Quote from: Chris24601 on March 05, 2021, 05:32:44 PM

Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?

A distinctly American set of categories;

Hobo - an itinerant worker.
Tramp - an itinerant who works only when forced to.
Bum - an layabout who refused to work.

The Hobo, as distinct from the other two had unions and a code of ethics (agreed to at a convention in 1889) associated with them...

• Decide your own life; don't let another person run or rule you.
• When in town, always respect the local law and officials, and try to be a gentleman at all times.
• Don't take advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable situation, locals or other hobos.
• Always try to find work, even if temporary, and always seek out jobs nobody wants. By doing so you not only help a business along, but ensure employment should you return to that town again.
• When no employment is available, make your own work by using your added talents at crafts.
• Do not allow yourself to become a stupid drunk and set a bad example for locals' treatment of other hobos.
• When jungling in town, respect handouts and do not wear them out; another hobo will be coming along who will need them as badly, if not worse than you.
• Always respect nature; do not leave garbage where you are jungling.
• If in a community jungle, always pitch in and help.
• Try to stay clean, and boil up wherever possible.
• When traveling, ride your train respectfully. Take no personal chances, cause no problems with the operating crew or host railroad; act like an extra crew member.
• Do not cause problems in a train yard; another hobo will be coming along who will need passage through that yard.
• Do not allow other hobos to molest children; expose all molesters to authorities – they are the worst garbage to infest any society.
• Help all runaway children, and try to induce them to return home.
• Help your fellow hobos whenever and wherever needed; you may need their help someday.
• If present at a hobo court and you have testimony, give it. Whether for or against the accused, your voice counts!

That above list is why I really don't mind fantasy adventurers being called "murder hobos"; i.e. itinerant workers who specialize in killing things.

We had those terms here in Canada as well. I had a book about hobos when I was a kid that showed all their signs and glyphs, it was pretty cool.

Like alot of these terms. At some point Hobo and Tramp got twisted to mean something else. At least to the late 70s Tramp was being used to refer to a stowaway. And in another as a ship. (Which is an old term for some types of ships apparently. Tramp Steamer?)

Which is another factor. One person says Joe is a tramp and means a travelling semi-worker, and someone else says Jane is a tramp and means shes either promiscuous, lazy, or a gold-digger. Possibly all of the above. Another reports a tramp and means a stowaway. A boat. and so on.

Heres one that came up recently.

Gaming friend of mine overseas had to move due to a deceptive new landowner and told me they were living in a caravan. My first thought was some sort of wagon home. But figured they meant some sort of camper or motorhome. Was a motorhome turns out. Ive also seen the term used to describe boat homes.

The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.

Quote from: yabaziou on March 28, 2021, 07:50:00 AM
The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.

You are so correct Yabaziou.
I was once accosted by a slovenly trull in 2019 and had to resort to calling her a more PC name whilst refusing her persistent advances. I used the encounter as an introduction of the table to my group during the next day's gaming session. After having the slovenly trull accost the paladin and giving myself a good chuckle...

Quote from: Samsquantch on March 28, 2021, 03:56:26 PM

Quote from: yabaziou on March 28, 2021, 07:50:00 AM
The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.

You are so correct Yabaziou.
I was once accosted by a slovenly trull in 2019 and had to resort to calling her a more PC name whilst refusing her persistent advances. I used the encounter as an introduction of the table to my group during the next day's gaming session. After having the slovenly trull accost the paladin and giving myself a good chuckle...

I am so pleased to read this !!!