Quote from: Visitor Q on March 04, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
I never knew the Harlot Table existed before the EnWorld thread. Slovenly Trull is one of the funniest things I have ever read. It's even funnier because as far as I can tell there's no such slang term as trull, (but there probably should be).
My Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Group has just reached Marienburg and if anyone doesn't think they are going to meet a slovenly trull in the next session, well they just haven't been paying attention.
I am actually factually, literally, crying with laughter over the harlot table. The follow up with saucy tart...it's so ridiculous.
Moved from another thread. But this brings up something thats not discussed enough really. The fact that alot of terms that seem made up, turn out to be actual real terms used once or even in some rare cases still used.
Trull = prosititute.
Strumpet = woman who is very sexually active.
Trollop = woman who is very sexually active.
Tart = woman who is very sexually active.
Wench = attractive girl
Doxy = a mistress.
Procuress = essentially a female procurer. In this case could mean brothel owner?
Several of these have over time also been used mean a prostitute. Even wench and tart and strumpet.
Bemusingly my grandmother would call some women floozies.
Tramp was another one used way back.
For men heard words like lothario, and cassanova used to be used quite a bit.
On the non-sexual side there are terms like cobbler for shoe repair people. Tinker for utensil repair people. Straw boss for an ineffectual boss. Raconteur (or Recounter as I've heard it) for a storyteller, and so on.
And this does not even get into local slang or local terms for things. My aunt used the term holler to refer to a swampy valley nearby where she grew up for example.
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?
Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 04, 2021, 09:21:47 PM
I never knew the Harlot Table existed before the EnWorld thread. Slovenly Trull is one of the funniest things I have ever read. It's even funnier because as far as I can tell there's no such slang term as trull, (but there probably should be).
My Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Group has just reached Marienburg and if anyone doesn't think they are going to meet a slovenly trull in the next session, well they just haven't been paying attention.
I am actually factually, literally, crying with laughter over the harlot table. The follow up with saucy tart...it's so ridiculous.
Moved from another thread. But this brings up something thats not discussed enough really. The fact that alot of terms that seem made up, turn out to be actual real terms used once or even in some rare cases still used.
Trull = prosititute.
Strumpet = woman who is very sexually active.
Trollop = woman who is very sexually active.
Tart = woman who is very sexually active.
Wench = attractive girl
Doxy = a mistress.
Procuress = essentially a female procurer. In this case could mean brothel owner?
Several of these have over time also been used mean a prostitute. Even wench and tart and strumpet.
Bemusingly my grandmother would call some women floozies.
Tramp was another one used way back.
For men heard words like lothario, and cassanova used to be used quite a bit.
On the non-sexual side there are terms like cobbler for shoe repair people. Tinker for utensil repair people. Straw boss for an ineffectual boss. Raconteur (or Recounter as I've heard it) for a storyteller, and so on.
And this does not even get into local slang or local terms for things. My aunt used the term holler to refer to a swampy valley nearby where she grew up for example.
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?
My grandmother who lived in rural Ireland referred to Gypsies as tinkers. Though you're right that they often did repair jobs.
Probably worth noting for mediaeval style games that there was a surprising amount of specialist jobs. For example in making a bow and arrow you'd have a boyer, a fletcher and an arrow smith. Likely another profession making the shafts as well.
Stevedores and Teamsters for unloading ships and then transporting goods. They make a classic closed Guild in any dock city setting.
Mooncusser is supposedly a word for a wrecker. Though as a consistent form of robbery it is perhaps an urban legend.
Holler would presumably be Hollow, since it's a 'hollow' depression in the landscape.
Quote from: Visitor Q on March 05, 2021, 05:00:43 PM
My grandmother who lived in rural Ireland referred to Gypsies as tinkers.
Tinker was standard for what are now called Travellers (ethnic Irish gypsy-style nomads) and Roma (Romany Gypsies). It comes from the repairs done to tin ware, which before modern mass manufacture & disposable society was a big thing. People would repair holes burnt in their cooking pots, rather than throw them away when the handle breaks or even when the patina gets scratched like nowadays.
Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?
A distinctly American set of categories;
Hobo - an itinerant worker.
Tramp - an itinerant who works only when forced to.
Bum - an layabout who refused to work.
The Hobo, as distinct from the other two had unions and a code of ethics (agreed to at a convention in 1889) associated with them...
- Decide your own life; don't let another person run or rule you.
- When in town, always respect the local law and officials, and try to be a gentleman at all times.
- Don't take advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable situation, locals or other hobos.
- Always try to find work, even if temporary, and always seek out jobs nobody wants. By doing so you not only help a business along, but ensure employment should you return to that town again.
- When no employment is available, make your own work by using your added talents at crafts.
- Do not allow yourself to become a stupid drunk and set a bad example for locals' treatment of other hobos.
- When jungling in town, respect handouts and do not wear them out; another hobo will be coming along who will need them as badly, if not worse than you.
- Always respect nature; do not leave garbage where you are jungling.
- If in a community jungle, always pitch in and help.
- Try to stay clean, and boil up wherever possible.
- When traveling, ride your train respectfully. Take no personal chances, cause no problems with the operating crew or host railroad; act like an extra crew member.
- Do not cause problems in a train yard; another hobo will be coming along who will need passage through that yard.
- Do not allow other hobos to molest children; expose all molesters to authorities – they are the worst garbage to infest any society.
- Help all runaway children, and try to induce them to return home.
- Help your fellow hobos whenever and wherever needed; you may need their help someday.
- If present at a hobo court and you have testimony, give it. Whether for or against the accused, your voice counts!
That above list is why I really don't mind fantasy adventurers being called "murder hobos"; i.e. itinerant workers who specialize in killing things.
I think my favorite is "wright", a general purpose carpenter. It is more likely heard in some of its specialty versions, such as shipwright or wainwright (wagon maker), or of course wheelwright.
Chandler is one you hear a lot - candle maker.
I was recently surprised to learn that "cobbler" was not a synonym for shoemaker. Oh, no. Cobbler is the English form of Cordswainer, which is a person who makes higher quality footwear (often boots) out of better leather--originally, Corduroy. The lowly shoemaker is not on this exalted plane and often wasn't even allowed to form a guild. Thus you have the powerful cobbler's guild and the poor, humble shoemaker in the same society.
In the southern USA, Hollow is often pronounced "Hollar", with some guttural emphasis on both vowels, but it is the same Holler identified by Omega. You can holler to get an echo to go up and down the hollow--so a play on words by munging the sound of both words and stretching them out with a southern accent.
Hollar may also just be carry-overs from british dialects.
I've met a more than a few brits who pronounce Omega as Omeger.
Even monsters can end up in the local dialect. Fallout made the Snallygaster popular but I know that from decades ago and its a monster that goes back decades more.
Hm? Never mind that.
What we need is an Advanced Harlot Table, with more names ;D
How about:
Honest hooker
Glamorous geisha
For a modern setting: carefree call-girl
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 07:23:44 AM
Hm? Never mind that.
What we need is an Advanced Harlot Table, with more names ;D
How about:
Honest hooker
Glamorous geisha
For a modern setting: carefree call-girl
Expensive Escort? Minx Masseuse?
Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.
Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.
A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.
Quote from: S'mon on March 06, 2021, 07:25:26 AM
Expensive Escort? Minx Masseuse?
Minx is apparently another relatively old word. See it get used even now-a-days sometimes.
One little used now but one I know of and used as part of the title of one of my books was defile, a narrow pass. Though originally I thought it meant some sort of rocky badlands, when instead it was referring to a pass IN the badlands when I heard it used.
Odd one heard used for locations but does not seem standard was tumult for a heavily rocky area or one with rock outjuttings.
Quote from: Lurkndog on March 06, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.
Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.
A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
Quote from: Lurkndog on March 06, 2021, 10:08:25 AM
Geisha are not prostitutes! They're formal hostesses and entertainers, in an honorable profession. They're not even a front for prostitution in a "wink, wink" sort of way.
Prostitution was legal in medieval Japan, with the proper credentials, and the Japanese were fairly open about it. But geisha were forbidden from working as prostitutes. A Japanese person would be expected to know the difference.
A high-end geisha-like prostitute would be called an oiran. There are many other Japanese terms for prostitutes of various types.
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
To keep it within the context of RPGs, having played L5R recently I did a reasonable amoung of research on this topic and I broadly agree with Trond on this.
I think with any kind of transactional relationship involving sex what is being defined as prostitution becomes very blurred very quickly. Not only are you contending with what is actually happening (i.e fundamentally is money being exchanged for sex) you are also contending with the cultural definition of a prostitute. For example the mistresses of 17th European Kings are rarely described in as stark a term as prostitutes but quite a lot of them were or had been. Also worth noting that actresses at this time had a reputation/was a euphamism for being prostitutes.
With geishas I think it is fair to say that they operated in a different and potentially even unique manner to other sex workers. However to suggest there is a very clear difference between geishas and prostitutes or there it is simply a modern confusion between equating the two I think is being slightly naive as to what actually happened.
For a roleplay of course this is great as it allows a wide spectrum of behaviour to suit the needs of the story and it would be perfectly acceptable to present geishas in an idealised manner.
All that being said if I've just arrived in town after a long week of slaying orcs I don't want someone to recite poetry about cherry blossoms falling. I'll be hoping for a Saucy Tart or a Wanton Wench. Of course I'd conceed to poetry recital in a tastefully okiya if the alternative was a Slovenly Trull though.
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
Frankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).
It's one reason why I like systems which provide a lot of flexibility over career choice once the game has started. The very reason your're an adventurer might be because your options if you stayed in your home town might have been prostitution, utterly menial work or begging.
As for the Advanced Harlot table, perhaps Bawdy Actress?
Quote from: Chris24601 on March 06, 2021, 12:23:28 PM
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
Frankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).
Yes, belly-dancers for instance. That's another group that has cleaned up its reputation considerably. Even if some belly dance teachers say that it "has to do with fertility" :D. However, in many of these cases it may have been understood that, for a while at least, the performer belonged to one (often prominent) member of the audience only.
To close the loop re: geishas and with reference to the opening post belly dancer is a French term but originally were known as almeh. Supposedly oriignally a respectable type of dancer it's not clear exactly when they became a class of courtesan. Certainly from a Western perspective from the 19th century they were synonomous with erotic dancing. Their role eventually became connected with the qiyan which were a class of slave girl trained in entertainment in the Islamic world.
The connection is that qiyan have been compared with the geishas of Japan in their role as trained companions for male patrons, though with many differences. (Dwight F. Reynolds, 'The Qiyan of al-Andalus', in Concubines and Courtesans: Women and Slavery in Islamic History)
Almeh and Qiyan might both provide interesting terms in a fantasy setting rather than belly dancer or slave girl.
Quote from: Steven Mitchell on March 05, 2021, 06:47:42 PM
I was recently surprised to learn that "cobbler" was not a synonym for shoemaker. Oh, no. Cobbler is the English form of Cordswainer, which is a person who makes higher quality footwear (often boots) out of better leather--originally, Corduroy. The lowly shoemaker is not on this exalted plane and often wasn't even allowed to form a guild. Thus you have the powerful cobbler's guild and the poor, humble shoemaker in the same society.
The un-curate's egg-ed version:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cordwainer
I hadn't looked at the Harlot Tables in years. Revisiting them, I can't help but think of the "level titles" of AD&D.
Harlot
Requirements: Con:9, Cha:12
Hit Dice: d6
Level Experience Hit Dice Title Special Features
1 0-1,500 1d6 Trull Oldest Profession[1d6], Pennyroyal Tea, Tools Of The Trade
2 2d6 Strumpet "I hear things..."
3 3d6 Trollop "I can take it"[+2], Oldest Profession [2d6], Thief Skills
4 4d6 Streetwalker Friends in Low Places
5 5d6 Tart Inspire Confidence
6 6d6 Wench Oldest Profession [3d6],
7 7d6 Doxy "I can take it."[+4]
8 8d6 Courtesan Friends In High Places
9 9d6 Madam House Of Ill-Repute,
10 9d6+1 hp per level after 9th Madam
I feel Streetwalker would be below Trollop and Tart above Wench.
QuoteFrankly, actors/entertainers in pretty much every culture have been always been associated with prostitution and petty crime (the exception being the Religious/Culture Teachers like the Bards) to the point that I actually considered merging my system's entertainer background with the outlaw background at one point (ultimately deciding against it only because some settings might need the distinction).
Various settings may need more or less backgrounds anyway TBH. This is much more setting dependent element that classes (at least non-mag ones) - so you know you change settings you cut off / add new backgrounds.
Quote from: Wicked Woodpecker of West on March 08, 2021, 07:45:02 AM
Various settings may need more or less backgrounds anyway TBH. This is much more setting dependent element that classes (at least non-mag ones) - so you know you change settings you cut off / add new backgrounds.
My backgrounds are fairly broad because they're as mechanically weighty as classes are in my system (vs. two skills, a tool proficiency/language and a minor rp-focused trait in 5e). Each background has enough options for three max level PCs to share a background with no overlap unless you desire to have overlap.
The official background list is arcanist, aristocrat, artisan, barbarian, commoner, entertainer, military, outlaw, religious, and traveler... which includes a fair degree of overlap; a wealthy traveling merchant might be an aristocrat, artisan or traveler depending on the specifics and priorities. Similarly, the line between a barbarian, commoner, outlaw and traveler can be quite blurred in a frontier village.
Quote from: Svenhelgrim on March 07, 2021, 09:08:15 AM
I hadn't looked at the Harlot Tables in years. Revisiting them, I can't help but think of the "level titles" of AD&D.
Harlot
Requirements: Con:9, Cha:12
Hit Dice: d6
Level Experience Hit Dice Title Special Features
1 0-1,500 1d6 Trull Oldest Profession[1d6], Pennyroyal Tea, Tools Of The Trade
2 2d6 Strumpet "I hear things..."
3 3d6 Trollop "I can take it"[+2], Oldest Profession [2d6], Thief Skills
4 4d6 Streetwalker Friends in Low Places
5 5d6 Tart Inspire Confidence
6 6d6 Wench Oldest Profession [3d6],
7 7d6 Doxy "I can take it."[+4]
8 8d6 Courtesan Friends In High Places
9 9d6 Madam House Of Ill-Repute,
10 9d6+1 hp per level after 9th Madam
I, for one, would like to see a full-blown (wink wink) Prostitute class for AD&D. Reminds me of junior high.
Quote from: Brad on March 08, 2021, 01:58:59 PM
I, for one, would like to see a full-blown (wink wink) Prostitute class for AD&D. Reminds me of junior high.
Been done in I believe an early edition of White Dwarf.
Found one, kinda. The Houri in issue 13, a sort of seductress magic-user class.
Probably more in one of the magazines.
Quote from: Chris24601 on March 05, 2021, 05:32:44 PM
Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
Anyone else have old or local terms for people, vocations or locations like that?
A distinctly American set of categories;
Hobo - an itinerant worker.
Tramp - an itinerant who works only when forced to.
Bum - an layabout who refused to work.
The Hobo, as distinct from the other two had unions and a code of ethics (agreed to at a convention in 1889) associated with them...
- Decide your own life; don't let another person run or rule you.
- When in town, always respect the local law and officials, and try to be a gentleman at all times.
- Don't take advantage of someone who is in a vulnerable situation, locals or other hobos.
- Always try to find work, even if temporary, and always seek out jobs nobody wants. By doing so you not only help a business along, but ensure employment should you return to that town again.
- When no employment is available, make your own work by using your added talents at crafts.
- Do not allow yourself to become a stupid drunk and set a bad example for locals' treatment of other hobos.
- When jungling in town, respect handouts and do not wear them out; another hobo will be coming along who will need them as badly, if not worse than you.
- Always respect nature; do not leave garbage where you are jungling.
- If in a community jungle, always pitch in and help.
- Try to stay clean, and boil up wherever possible.
- When traveling, ride your train respectfully. Take no personal chances, cause no problems with the operating crew or host railroad; act like an extra crew member.
- Do not cause problems in a train yard; another hobo will be coming along who will need passage through that yard.
- Do not allow other hobos to molest children; expose all molesters to authorities – they are the worst garbage to infest any society.
- Help all runaway children, and try to induce them to return home.
- Help your fellow hobos whenever and wherever needed; you may need their help someday.
- If present at a hobo court and you have testimony, give it. Whether for or against the accused, your voice counts!
That above list is why I really don't mind fantasy adventurers being called "murder hobos"; i.e. itinerant workers who specialize in killing things.
We had those terms here in Canada as well. I had a book about hobos when I was a kid that showed all their signs and glyphs, it was pretty cool.
Like alot of these terms. At some point Hobo and Tramp got twisted to mean something else. At least to the late 70s Tramp was being used to refer to a stowaway. And in another as a ship. (Which is an old term for some types of ships apparently. Tramp Steamer?)
Which is another factor. One person says Joe is a tramp and means a travelling semi-worker, and someone else says Jane is a tramp and means shes either promiscuous, lazy, or a gold-digger. Possibly all of the above. Another reports a tramp and means a stowaway. A boat. and so on.
Heres one that came up recently.
Gaming friend of mine overseas had to move due to a deceptive new landowner and told me they were living in a caravan. My first thought was some sort of wagon home. But figured they meant some sort of camper or motorhome. Was a motorhome turns out. Ive also seen the term used to describe boat homes.
The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.
Quote from: yabaziou on March 28, 2021, 07:50:00 AM
The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.
You are so correct Yabaziou.
I was once accosted by a slovenly trull in 2019 and had to resort to calling her a more PC name whilst refusing her persistent advances. I used the encounter as an introduction of the table to my group during the next day's gaming session. After having the slovenly trull accost the paladin and giving myself a good chuckle...
Quote from: Samsquantch on March 28, 2021, 03:56:26 PM
Quote from: yabaziou on March 28, 2021, 07:50:00 AM
The harlot table is a thing true beauty because, sadly, cities were and still full of prostitution, and having a little fun about that sad state of the world is rather innocent and many of the books of the now infamous appendix N were in fact full of picaresque Adventures were buyable love was a common thing. We are living full of puritans and self-righteous wannabe People's commissars who want to impose their pathetic and mediocre vision of Mankind.
You are so correct Yabaziou.
I was once accosted by a slovenly trull in 2019 and had to resort to calling her a more PC name whilst refusing her persistent advances. I used the encounter as an introduction of the table to my group during the next day's gaming session. After having the slovenly trull accost the paladin and giving myself a good chuckle...
I am so pleased to read this !!!
Quote from: yabaziou on March 28, 2021, 04:13:30 PM
[quote author=Samsquantch link=topic=43312.msg1167000#msg1167000
You are so correct Yabaziou.
I was once accosted by a slovenly trull in 2019 and had to resort to calling her a more PC name whilst refusing her persistent advances. I used the encounter as an introduction of the table to my group during the next day's gaming session. After having the slovenly trull accost the paladin and giving myself a good chuckle...
I am so pleased to read this !!!
[/quote]
Glad to hear it!
My players are all new to RPG's and started with 5e. I've been gaming since 79 so I love introducing old school stuff to them at every opportunity.
Where there are harlots there are often police. An old term for the constabulary, which I do use myself, is the Gathers. So called because they can gather you up during the course of their enquiries. Hence the phrase, the gathers have spun my drum - the police have searched my abode.
Quote from: Tiocfaidh ár lá on March 28, 2021, 06:23:46 PM
Where there are harlots there are often police. An old term for the constabulary, which I do use myself, is the Gathers. So called because they can gather you up during the course of their enquiries. Hence the phrase, the gathers have spun my drum - the police have searched my abode.
That's cool! I've never heard that one before.
I'm fond of "mooncalf" as a simultaneously archaic and euphemistic substitution for "retard".
And "tyro" for "newb".
I've heard tyro before as a synonym for newbie, but damned if I can remember the origin.
Speaking of dams, ever hear the phrase 'not worth a tinker's dam'? Continuing on the stuff about tinkers, the 'dam' was a clay patch put into place over a hole in a pan. Molten tin was then applied to the other side to form the proper patch, and then the clay was knocked off. Obviously, not worth anything -- hence the phrase.
American hobos and tramps tend to be a very curious, very different breed from Roma/travelers. I remember hearing somewhere -- can't recall where -- that most hobos loathe traveler bands and avoid them like the plague.
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AM
I have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
As I understand it, geisha might work in the red light district, but not as prostitutes.
Think of a bartender at a strip club, or a dealer in a casino. There might be stuff going on, but not everyone is a person of negotiable virtue, and you can get yourself kicked out if you try to cross that line.
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 11:29:44 AMI have heard it presented like that, but honestly? I don't believe this is true. The history of geisha is intermingled with prostitution from the start, even when some of them were men. It's become an art form so they try to give it a cleaner image. In a society with mores like old Japan, a woman who entertains men in private probably provided sexual acts as well, even if they may have been much more exclusive than common prostitutes.
It is more complicated than that because of social class.
Geisha are interwined with the 'floating world' of entertainment, and they were of a higher level then other types of performer.
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 29, 2021, 10:31:56 AM
I've heard tyro before as a synonym for newbie, but damned if I can remember the origin.
I'm pretty sure I've read that term in Robert A. Heinlein sci fi books.
According to Merriam-Webster, it comes from the latin
tiro, meaning a young soldier or new recruit.
Quote from: Trond on March 06, 2021, 07:23:44 AM
Hm? Never mind that.
What we need is an Advanced Harlot Table, with more names ;D
How about:
Honest hooker
Glamorous geisha
For a modern setting: carefree call-girl
Skilled Flautist
A Flautist, is someone who plays the Flute.
Quote from: Omega on March 05, 2021, 04:40:07 PM
And this does not even get into local slang or local terms for things. My aunt used the term holler to refer to a swampy valley nearby where she grew up for example.
My grandfather called the hollow where he dumped dead leaves, grass clippings, and clinkers from the coal furnace "the dingle." He emigrated to the US from the north of Ireland.
Calling that the dingle is kind of weird in a way, since the Dingle Peninsula in Ireland is where his wife, my grandmother, was from.
Quote from: Lurkndog on May 24, 2021, 08:50:47 AM
Quote from: Ghostmaker on March 29, 2021, 10:31:56 AM
I've heard tyro before as a synonym for newbie, but damned if I can remember the origin.
I'm pretty sure I've read that term in Robert A. Heinlein sci fi books.
According to Merriam-Webster, it comes from the latin tiro, meaning a young soldier or new recruit.
I've seen Tyro used in a few different things. Usually in ref to someone younger, unseasoned etc. So fits the above definition. Also heard it used to refer to younger thugs, ruffians, carousers, etc.
Plays, books, even comics and movies. Have not seen it used in a long time though.
Quote from: Bren on May 24, 2021, 04:01:33 PMMy grandfather called the hollow where he dumped dead leaves, grass clippings, and clinkers from the coal furnace "the dingle." He emigrated to the US from the north of Ireland.
Calling that the dingle is kind of weird in a way, since the Dingle Peninsula in Ireland is where his wife, my grandmother, was from.
I've heard dingle used before. But never knew what it was really referring to other than some sort of geography.
Quote from: Omega on May 24, 2021, 09:54:40 PMI've heard dingle used before. But never knew what it was really referring to other than some sort of geography.
Dell would be another word for it.
Quote from: Bren on May 25, 2021, 03:31:28 PM
Quote from: Omega on May 24, 2021, 09:54:40 PMI've heard dingle used before. But never knew what it was really referring to other than some sort of geography.
Dell would be another word for it.
My family used the two words differently -- a dell could have water running out of (or through) it, a dingle was dished so that it couldn't.
Dell was fairly common where I grew up. The ones I know of were all wooded depressions of some sort.
And heres a weird one. Where moved to in the 90s there was a place locally called Grimpen Mire that heard of on the radio but never saw. But apparently that is not a real location as its a fictional place in Hound of the Baskervilles?
Quote from: Omega on May 27, 2021, 12:49:22 AMAnd heres a weird one. Where moved to in the 90s there was a place locally called Grimpen Mire that heard of on the radio but never saw. But apparently that is not a real location as its a fictional place in Hound of the Baskervilles?
Dartmoor has mires. I'd guess Conan Doyle created a fictional location based on the real mires.
Right. But what was this Grimpen Mire on the radio? Best guess I have is that it must have been a Halloween attraction. But its been 20+ years and theres no one left that can ask.