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Okey, so a totally new Magic System for OpenD6 huh?

I personally like the 3 colors of magic + fatigue.

White magic, Grey magic and Black magic, corruption points.

Fatigue, no spell slots any magic user can cast any spell his power level allows him to, the caster can even fuel the spell with his life force (risking his life). After exhausting his fatigue points the caster needs to rest to recover. No forgetting spells.

What say you?

Like what I'm hearing so far.

I'd also like there to be some procedure by which users can trade off costs vs. effectiveness in various aspects: make a spell stronger at the cost of making it less precise or controlled, or grant extra power if you take extra time or carry out more complex rituals.  (Maybe the ability to do this is governed by a Skill rather than an inborn talent or power: you can learn fixed specific procedures by rote, but being able to improvise magic requires really understanding it.)

It sounds similar to the magic system of FFG's Genesys supplement Realms of Terrinoth. That doesn't use white/grey/black divisions, but instead uses arcane/divine/primal/rune/verse divides with each one able to do 5/7 (or so) of the spell types. You can modify the spells as you cast them and the wilder you get the higher the chance of failing to cast it or of miscasting it. All spellcasting involves drain, and the basic rule of thumb is that casting is generally a Swiss army knife that is versatile but often more difficult (but often faster, and more convenient) than a dedicated mundane way of doing the same task.

I like the sound of Fatigue with the 3-color division splitting the load. Corruption is a nice mechanic to have too and I always like being able to "burn" HP in place of other costs (though perhaps there could be a sect of Black magic that is very powerful, but exclusively uses HP to power? Blood magic? Maybe you could use sacrifices...). Spell slots leave me cold.

I think it would be good to aim for "flexible but straightforward" for the magic system overall, to keep in spirit with the rest of the system. Would there be codified spells or would it be a more freeform system? Perhaps not quite as flexible/freeform as Barbarians of Lemuria with it's broad and general 3 'spell levels' with assorted possible costs, but maybe effects-based somehow? Hmm. If there are codified spells, there would need to be some sort of simplified design system for those so effects-based construction would make sense (but not so ridiculously finnicky as the existing systems).

Would magic skills be specific to each color of magic? I think that is sensible, but it would be nice to have options for specialization within those categories (so you can build a "pure" healer, or a pure fire mage, necromancer, whatever).

It might be nice to have some sort of metric for reducing spell casting difficulty based on some separate scale from skill but I'm not sure how that would work. It would be preferred to have both novice casters and scary-powerful archmages and enchanters be able to be built under the same system.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1102359I'd also like there to be some procedure by which users can trade off costs vs. effectiveness in various aspects: make a spell stronger at the cost of making it less precise or controlled, or grant extra power if you take extra time or carry out more complex rituals.  (Maybe the ability to do this is governed by a Skill rather than an inborn talent or power: you can learn fixed specific procedures by rote, but being able to improvise magic requires really understanding it.)

I do like the sound of this.

Question: Does the White/Grey/Black division refer to an objective quality of the type of power you're drawing upon (e.g. the Dresden Files' Soulfire vs. Hellfire), or is it a philosophical evaluation of the motives/spirit of the caster (e.g. anger, hatred and fear being of the Dark Side)? Or the function of the spell itself?

One of the major limits of magic in Randall Garrett's "Lord Darcy" series was that outright personally destructive magic was always objectively "black," i.e. psychically and morally self-destructive as well, which meant magic was of only the most limited utility in battle or warfare; the vast majority of licit "combat spells" couldn't be used at all unless someone tried to attack you first.  However, the Theory of Ethics (quite an advanced body of logic) meant it was permissible to interfere with another's actions specifically to prevent them doing harm, which was the basis for a key plot point in the novel Too Many Magicians.  Most gamers are unlikely to enjoy something that restrictive, but it's still a question worth thinking about.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1102359Like what I'm hearing so far.

I'd also like there to be some procedure by which users can trade off costs vs. effectiveness in various aspects: make a spell stronger at the cost of making it less precise or controlled, or grant extra power if you take extra time or carry out more complex rituals.  (Maybe the ability to do this is governed by a Skill rather than an inborn talent or power: you can learn fixed specific procedures by rote, but being able to improvise magic requires really understanding it.)

Plot twist, make it like being force sensitive, you can have the inborn talent but it requires training to achieve any real power.

For instance a priest has to work on improving his god's appreciation of him, the more deeds he does that please his god the more favor he has, the holier he becomes the more power he has.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1102360It sounds similar to the magic system of FFG's Genesys supplement Realms of Terrinoth. That doesn't use white/grey/black divisions, but instead uses arcane/divine/primal/rune/verse divides with each one able to do 5/7 (or so) of the spell types. You can modify the spells as you cast them and the wilder you get the higher the chance of failing to cast it or of miscasting it. All spellcasting involves drain, and the basic rule of thumb is that casting is generally a Swiss army knife that is versatile but often more difficult (but often faster, and more convenient) than a dedicated mundane way of doing the same task.

Haven't read it, yes magic is a way to skip the steps on doing many things or achieving similar results, but also to accomplish the impossible.

Quote from: Antiquation!;1102361I like the sound of Fatigue with the 3-color division splitting the load. Corruption is a nice mechanic to have too and I always like being able to "burn" HP in place of other costs (though perhaps there could be a sect of Black magic that is very powerful, but exclusively uses HP to power? Blood magic? Maybe you could use sacrifices...). Spell slots leave me cold.

I think it would be good to aim for "flexible but straightforward" for the magic system overall, to keep in spirit with the rest of the system. Would there be codified spells or would it be a more freeform system? Perhaps not quite as flexible/freeform as Barbarians of Lemuria with it's broad and general 3 'spell levels' with assorted possible costs, but maybe effects-based somehow? Hmm. If there are codified spells, there would need to be some sort of simplified design system for those so effects-based construction would make sense (but not so ridiculously finnicky as the existing systems).

Would magic skills be specific to each color of magic? I think that is sensible, but it would be nice to have options for specialization within those categories (so you can build a "pure" healer, or a pure fire mage, necromancer, whatever).

It might be nice to have some sort of metric for reducing spell casting difficulty based on some separate scale from skill but I'm not sure how that would work. It would be preferred to have both novice casters and scary-powerful archmages and enchanters be able to be built under the same system.

Effects based sounds good, but in my vision magic has sharp divisions, of course you can use black magic but it will cost you, also the more powerful the spell the more it costs in fatigue and the more power you need to cast it. For instance a light spell has 1 fatigue point cost per hour. If you wish to have the light circle be wider then you spend more fatigue points.

Also, corruption, you start at zero or lets say 30 and each grey or black spell costs you, reducing your (lets call them sanity points) by as many as the spell level + power, to regain them you must perform cleansing rituals, to drop below certain point doubles the time of your cleansing, then triples it, then you just can't becoming an utrly evil wizard demonriden, whatever.

The spell casting difficulty gets reduced as you level up because you gain power points and hit points or whatever your system uses.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1102365Question: Does the White/Grey/Black division refer to an objective quality of the type of power you're drawing upon (e.g. the Dresden Files' Soulfire vs. Hellfire), or is it a philosophical evaluation of the motives/spirit of the caster (e.g. anger, hatred and fear being of the Dark Side)? Or the function of the spell itself?

One of the major limits of magic in Randall Garrett's "Lord Darcy" series was that outright personally destructive magic was always objectively "black," i.e. psychically and morally self-destructive as well, which meant magic was of only the most limited utility in battle or warfare; the vast majority of licit "combat spells" couldn't be used at all unless someone tried to attack you first.  However, the Theory of Ethics (quite an advanced body of logic) meant it was permissible to interfere with another's actions specifically to prevent them doing harm, which was the basis for a key plot point in the novel Too Many Magicians.  Most gamers are unlikely to enjoy something that restrictive, but it's still a question worth thinking about.

Yes, white magic is never to hurt someone, of course said someone can still get hurt by your spell, for instance a darkness cloud to hide your party might cause the enemies to hurt themselves by falling, tripping or plainly hitting each other with their weapons, but this is an unintended consequence not the aim of your spell, so it's white magic.

Grey magic is more of a combat magic, it corrupts the caster, but it can be used to attack directly your opponents, while Black magic can not be used to heal only to hurt and it corrupts twice as much as grey magic of the same level.

Now this is just what I have thought so far, this is for we as a group to decide and to build the system, and we can always add optional rules or a similar but different system with less or more restrictions.

Important:

I said 3 colors but it could be 3 realms: Divine, Wild and Arcane magic.

It could easily be more if we choose realms as we could make further divisions of different kinds of magic.

Or we could have instead the 3 realms with different kinds of casters, for instance rune casters have to inscribe their spells and ink casters have to tattoo them. Or (what was the name of the Japanese caster with written in paper spells?).

At this point I think we're better off deciding the basics first then we can decide on the exact mechanics, and then finally write down something concrete.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1102373Effects based sounds good, but in my vision magic has sharp divisions, of course you can use black magic but it will cost you, also the more powerful the spell the more it costs in fatigue and the more power you need to cast it. For instance a light spell has 1 fatigue point cost per hour. If you wish to have the light circle be wider then you spend more fatigue points.

Interesting. Makes sense, I guess you would just need to define scope in some way to effectively cover each scale of spell.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1102373Also, corruption, you start at zero or lets say 30 and each grey or black spell costs you, reducing your (lets call them sanity points) by as many as the spell level + power, to regain them you must perform cleansing rituals, to drop below certain point doubles the time of your cleansing, then triples it, then you just can't becoming an utrly evil wizard demonriden, whatever.

I like this. An alternative would be if Corruption started at zero and upon passing certain thresholds, there are worse and worse effects? Perhaps you could roll against your Corruption total to potentially resist the effects, to encourage people to push their Threshold in exchange for more and more power or bigger spells, without necessarily having an upper limit. Tempt them, but then if you really want a limit you could assign a max threshold of some value like x times your [stat] or [skill] that effectively turns them into an NPC (they go mad or get dragged to hell or whatever).

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1102373The spell casting difficulty gets reduced as you level up because you gain power points and hit points or whatever your system uses.

Yeah, this was along the lines of my thought as well.

Quote from: GeekyBugle;1102378Or we could have instead the 3 realms with different kinds of casters, for instance rune casters have to inscribe their spells and ink casters have to tattoo them. Or (what was the name of the Japanese caster with written in paper spells?).

I personally prefer this type. It feels like a sharper division of purpose and methodology than just reflavorings like "spellcaster, but they like the forest" etc.

Is there a publicly available sample magic system for the D6 rules? Just so we have a common reference base to start from for those who don't know the system completely.

Quote from: Stephen Tannhauser;1102382Is there a publicly available sample magic system for the D6 rules? Just so we have a common reference base to start from for those who don't know the system completely.

You can find the legal/free OpenD6 Fantasy here (which contains the default magic systems):

http://opend6.wikidot.com/

EDIT: Apparently the files are no longer hosted there, but you can find magic and spells in this online SRD via the "Character Section" tab to the left:

http://opend6project.org/