I'm searching for something much simpler than lawfull-good, etc.
3 entries in total, you're a boy-scout and uphold the law
you're the punisher or the shadow and exact vengeance
or you're somewhat in between those two, you uphold the law but sometimes you exact vengeance when the system fails letting a criminal go free.
So far the best I have is this:
Protector: the boyscout
Scourge: The Shadow
Guardian: The pragmatic one.
Thoughts? Input? Suggestions?

Of course it won't be called alignment, I was thinking of either Style or Flavor. Just a little bit to help you define your character.

Take a look at the Palladium alignment system.

You have:

• Principled (Good): Goody Two-Shoes Hero
• Scrupulous (Good): Dirty Harry/Charles Bronson
• Unprincipled (Selfish/Neutral): Han Solo, wants to be self-serving but ends up doing good
• Anarchist (Selfish/Neutral): Only takes care of him-/herself

Plus three evil alignments.
It's pretty good.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1102871Take a look at the Palladium alignment system.

You have:

• Principled (Good): Goody Two-Shoes Hero
• Scrupulous (Good): Dirty Harry/Charles Bronson
• Unprincipled (Selfish/Neutral): Han Solo, wants to be self-serving but ends up doing good
• Anarchist (Selfish/Neutral): Only takes care of him-/herself

Plus three evil alignments.
It's pretty good.

Thanks for the tip, will try and do so.

It's a bit more complex in a sense, but I'm a huge fan of M&M 2e's Allegiances. Essentially, you pick up to three things (I like to rank mine, but it's not required) you value/hold allegience to. You get bonuses to reaction rolls/social skills with people who share one or more of your Allegiances and penalties to same if Allegiances are opposed.

Each can be as broad or narrow as you wish. They could be Allegiance to an entire code of conduct or to a principle (justice, truth, eye-for-an-eye payback, etc.). A traditional Boy Scout type might choose the classic God, Family, Country. A gangster might have his family, The Family, and to loyalty in general. A Batman type might have Protecting the Innocent, Vengeance/Justice (depending on the version) and his "family."

Where it gets fun is when you, as the GM setup situations where Allegiances are in opposition to each other. Make the Boy Scout choose between family and country. Put the vigilante in the position where they can't both protect the innocent and punish the guilty at the same time, etc.

That's where, as a player, ranking your Allegiances can come in handy (even if the GM is unaware of your actual rankings) so when they're opposed you've already got some idea of what your character will do.

Quote from: Chris24601;1102940It's a bit more complex in a sense, but I'm a huge fan of M&M 2e's Allegiances. Essentially, you pick up to three things (I like to rank mine, but it's not required) you value/hold allegience to. You get bonuses to reaction rolls/social skills with people who share one or more of your Allegiances and penalties to same if Allegiances are opposed.

Each can be as broad or narrow as you wish. They could be Allegiance to an entire code of conduct or to a principle (justice, truth, eye-for-an-eye payback, etc.). A traditional Boy Scout type might choose the classic God, Family, Country. A gangster might have his family, The Family, and to loyalty in general. A Batman type might have Protecting the Innocent, Vengeance/Justice (depending on the version) and his "family."

Where it gets fun is when you, as the GM setup situations where Allegiances are in opposition to each other. Make the Boy Scout choose between family and country. Put the vigilante in the position where they can't both protect the innocent and punish the guilty at the same time, etc.

That's where, as a player, ranking your Allegiances can come in handy (even if the GM is unaware of your actual rankings) so when they're opposed you've already got some idea of what your character will do.

Yeah, it is more complex, will give it a once over anyway, might give me ideas after all.
Yes, I see how it could be great to RP your Allegiances.
Thanks for the tip!

While I won't claim to be an expert on The Shadow, I have read the first 200 or so "novels" and he seems to be motivated purely out of the challenge.  He was a former fighter pilot (and operative) in WW1 and seems to have enjoyed hunting and killing people and so after the war he decided to do the same to criminals.

Call it "The Predator"


(NB I'm almost certain that D&D's Druidic advancement system came from a Shadow story. In one of them he fights against druids and they have to fight each other for advancement)

Quote from: JeremyR;1102962While I won't claim to be an expert on The Shadow, I have read the first 200 or so "novels" and he seems to be motivated purely out of the challenge.  He was a former fighter pilot (and operative) in WW1 and seems to have enjoyed hunting and killing people and so after the war he decided to do the same to criminals.

Call it "The Predator"


(NB I'm almost certain that D&D's Druidic advancement system came from a Shadow story. In one of them he fights against druids and they have to fight each other for advancement)

You're very close in your interpretation of The Shadow, he is a predator in search of redemption in my interpretation (granted I haven't read his novels in too many years). But I'm just using him as an example of the type of PC that would fit into that Drive (changed the name ).

Currently I have this:

Guardian: Goody two shoes
Avenger: The system is a revolving door, the innocent shall be avenged.
Maverick: Will break the law if it's necessary to meet out justice.
Miscreant: Will break the law if it benefits his/her in an economic/power/social way.
Scourge: Will take what's rightfully mine
Nemesis: Will destroy the system.

Of the top of my head...

Hero
Anti-Hero
Mercenary

Hero is altruistic, willing to die to save the world, or even one innocent.

Anti-Hero may fight alongside the hero, but ultimately cares about themselves and their own code. Many heroes driven by revenge and those willing to kill fit the bill.

Mercenary is out for fame and wealth. They will fight villains, but they many just want to be celebrities.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1102977Of the top of my head...

Hero
Anti-Hero
Mercenary

Hero is altruistic, willing to die to save the world, or even one innocent.

Anti-Hero may fight alongside the hero, but ultimately cares about themselves and their own code. Many heroes driven by revenge and those willing to kill fit the bill.

Mercenary is out for fame and wealth. They will fight villains, but they many just want to be celebrities.

Sounds good. will put it in my notes for the game.

Why have alignments at all?

Let the characters be defined by their actions and deeds rather than pigeonholing them into one bracket.

Or at least use something like D&D and Dragonlance's sliding alignment system.

Examples like the Green Hornet who are altruistic, but pretend to be a criminal. Or the Shadow who uses underhanded tricks to coierce people into doing his bidding. And is not exactly altruistic. But is at least on the side beating up, or shooting, criminals. Most, but obviously not all, pulp heroes had few qualms about killing criminals.

Quote from: Omega;1103099Why have alignments at all?

Let the characters be defined by their actions and deeds rather than pigeonholing them into one bracket.

Or at least use something like D&D and Dragonlance's sliding alignment system.

Examples like the Green Hornet who are altruistic, but pretend to be a criminal. Or the Shadow who uses underhanded tricks to coierce people into doing his bidding. And is not exactly altruistic. But is at least on the side beating up, or shooting, criminals. Most, but obviously not all, pulp heroes had few qualms about killing criminals.

More than alignment, it's style or flavor, ethos and drive, motivation. But I see your point, I'm just taking notes so far and I wanted something to differentiate two characters of the same class.

Quote from: Omega;1103099Most, but obviously not all, pulp heroes had few qualms about killing criminals.

Very true.

Code vs. Killing would be a major dividing line.

Champions/Hero Systems Psychological Limitations worked marvellously to define the character's philosophy.

Quote from: Law Dog;1103124Champions/Hero Systems Psychological Limitations worked marvellously to define the character's philosophy.

Will re-read it to see if I can borrow something, but I'm aiming at something simpler and different from existing games.

Albedo, which I worked on way back, had the Stability score which was how emotionally stable a character was. And tied into their SPI rating, Socio-Psych-Intel. This was essentially how socially and mentally stable a person was within society.

But more importantly it had ties and antipathies. These were the things the character or NPC has view on. Friends, Rivals, their job, an organization, or an ideal for example. On average about 30 points to spend on levels in whatever ties and antipathies a player or GM deemed appropriate. Ties had positive points, antipathies were negative. Though play a PC or NPCs experiences with those things they have ties or antipathies might change for better or worse. And depending on how emotionally stable the character is. Those scores could shift. And if a tie or antipathy went to negative or positive respectively, they flipped. A tie to a friend for example could become an antipathy of said friend betrayed the character or did something else negative. The stability score was important to resisting changes like that.

Albedo's system of all things would make for a fairly gritty pulp hero system as well as its combat is lethal and the psychological impacts on PCs and NPCs meshes well with the oft rollercoaster interpersonal relations many pulp characters go through at some point. Sanguine's Albedo book is pretty much useless for that and loses a-lot of nuance and grit for sake of spectacle. Which goes against the ideals Steve presented in his comics.