Quote from: Ratman_tf;1095213My work lately has been in AR, and I think RTal are missing an opportunity to integrate netrunning into meatspace.

Please discuss!!!

Very interested in how you see AR in a cyberpunk world from a real tech perspective.

Quote from: Longshadow;1095245The more I read about it, the more it looks like the same old game.

Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!

I want the same game with some more balanced/nuanced stats and select revamps. The netrunning example doesn't excite me. But then again I never found the original netrunning too problematic either.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!

Most of the system has stood the test of time and is still often hailed as one of the best, if not the best, gun game in TTRPGs. The netrunning might not be the "bestest evar!" but what I've seen so far...especially when coupled with the "Get out of the van, computer nerd!" setting conceit...makes me happy. My tastes have become more narrative and less crunchy, but I'm still happy to dive into a gritty system. It'd be nice if every roll didn't involve a stream of math, but even so, CP2020 combat went pretty smoothly. What I hope they do...and this is something simulation and narrative players would both likely enjoy...is make GMing NPCs slicker.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Please discuss!!!

Very interested in how you see AR in a cyberpunk world from a real tech perspective.

I actually started jotting down some notes last night. My first thoughts are, to ditch the idea of the Net being soely virtual. The future's gonna be integrated with realspace. This video is fictional, but will give you an idea of what I'm talking about.

[video=youtube;YJg02ivYzSs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs[/youtube]

And yes, the technology is real. I work with it everyday.

[video=youtube_share;uIHPPtPBgHk]https://youtu.be/uIHPPtPBgHk[/youtube]

So that ICE program isn't located in VR, on level 2 of some virtual construct. It's actually 'standing' in the bank it's guarding. People with AR displays can see it in the bank like a physical security guard. If the netrunner tries to crash it, he's actually in the bank, running his programs there. Now, imagine all hacking of physical devices runs the same. You want a netrunner to hack a security door? He walks up to it and starts 'picking' the lock like a thief in D&D!
Now it's already possible to hack AR locations by spoofing your GPS data. So we can incorporate that. A netrunner could send a GPS "Ghost" version of himself ahead to scout out the area. Using the facilities security cams to "see" what he's doing.

VR would still have it's place, but for most edgerunning, I think AR interfaces would be the way to go.
This is all off the cuff stuff, I'd want to refine the ideas further. But I think it's got promise, and wouldn't be too hard to adapt the current netrunning rules to. The big change is to forget about VR spaces, and integrate real world spaces instead.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095282Most of the system has stood the test of time and is still often hailed as one of the best, if not the best, gun game in TTRPGs.

Mike Pondsmith being guest of honor at Gencon got me thinking about CP2020 for the first time in a while and I briefly thought of starting a "where I read" thread on Friday Night Firefight.

For hours played CP2020 ran neck and neck with D&D with me and my friends back in the 90s, and one thing I can remember is the sense of chaos and mayhem that prevailed during the shootouts. As I recall (I'm at work so I don't have the book handy) the introduction in FNFF specifically notes that real firefights involving anyone except elite soldiers are likely to be mostly confusion and panicked shooting in the general direction of where you think the threat is while you try to stay under cover.

So FNFF seems like a case where the rules ended up supporting the stated design goals pretty well.

My take is -

1) They're looking ahead at the realities (or nightmare) of our current internet (Cloud) and the inevitable problems we're creating by plugging everything into it - ala CP2020. Enter Bartmoss and the big meltdown in the 4th Corporate War... the natural solution is closed networks and analog access like Star Wars.

2) This solves several major problems with Netrunning. It forces the Netrunner to be on location. I suspect using the AR Narrative and in-Net/Out-Net action economy it will force Netrunners to have their "own thing" in real-time while other PC's can do their thing and they're *still* making progress without fubarring the flow of the game... in theory.

3) The analog network-access idea cleaves close to what Interface Zero does (don't know precisely how close), where their is very little "virtual Netrunning" - and they're discrete actions. If not, then this might be the solution if all the "virtual Netrunning" becomes onerous. A good way to see this in action is the videogame XCOM Enemy Unknown. Hackers have to physically get to terminals - OR use their Hacking skills remotely - IN play to do effects. Where will be determined by skill. In CPRed's system this is where specific Programs will will that gap.

If I don't like the Netrunning Rules - I intend to overhaul it this way.

Quote from: Dimitrios;1095309Mike Pondsmith being guest of honor at Gencon got me thinking about CP2020 for the first time in a while and I briefly thought of starting a "where I read" thread on Friday Night Firefight.

For hours played CP2020 ran neck and neck with D&D with me and my friends back in the 90s, and one thing I can remember is the sense of chaos and mayhem that prevailed during the shootouts. As I recall (I'm at work so I don't have the book handy) the introduction in FNFF specifically notes that real firefights involving anyone except elite soldiers are likely to be mostly confusion and panicked shooting in the general direction of where you think the threat is while you try to stay under cover.

So FNFF seems like a case where the rules ended up supporting the stated design goals pretty well.

I remember that part as well. It made my teenage mind think about how much more bad ass solos would be and why a guy who could “John Wick” would be utterly terrifying. The system is deadly and so easy to use at the table, even with its crunch. At least, I remember it that way.

It's *still* that way.

Quote from: tenbones;1095450It's *still* that way.

It's awesome how many newer gamers have discovered CP2020 because of CP2077. I'd be interested to see discussions from them on the nuanced lethality of CP2020's gun game.

From the latest blog post for CP Red Jumpstart:

https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/12/kitbashing-combat/

It's largely as I remember save a few bits and it's a slimmed down ruleset, but this one bit seems odd:

"Brawling damage scales. The higher your Body, the more damage your brawling attacks do. Someone with a Body of 7 is doing as much damage with their fists as a heavy pistol."

Punching you hurts as badly as a high caliber bullet? That was a thing with martial arts before so perhaps that’s it, or this is some abstract "hurting is hurting no matter the source" (even then that's a stretch). I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that and am eager to know more.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095473It's awesome how many newer gamers have discovered CP2020 because of CP2077. I'd be interested to see discussions from them on the nuanced lethality of CP2020's gun game.

It all serves to reenforce my belief that an RPG's popularity is largely driven by marketing. Including and above all, D&D's.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1095702It all serves to reenforce my belief that an RPG's popularity is largely driven by marketing. Including and above all, D&D's.

I can get behind that. I think a game's staying power is largely due to it being good, but if it's hotter than hot and popular, yeah, that's certainly going to help get it on shelves. What's cool is that such a media blitz will get people looking at a 30 year old game that's still running solid today and perhaps they'll look at other "oldies but goodies".

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095732I can get behind that. I think a game's staying power is largely due to it being good, but if it's hotter than hot and popular, yeah, that's certainly going to help get it on shelves. What's cool is that such a media blitz will get people looking at a 30 year old game that's still running solid today and perhaps they'll look at other "oldies but goodies".

I have held for a while now that RPGs need more household names. I don't care which: Warhammer 40K, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Call of Cthulhu, whatever. The general public needs a wider sense of what our hobby encompasses, including narrativist games, beyond slaying monsters and taking their gold.

Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1095737I have held for a while now that RPGs need more household names. I don't care which: Warhammer 40K, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Call of Cthulhu, whatever. The general public needs a wider sense of what our hobby encompasses, including narrativist games, beyond slaying monsters and taking their gold.

HERESY! There is only one way to game! Only one game to play! To invite difference is to invite the impure! It sullies greatness! It elevates the unclean!

Nah, you're totally right. I love seeing new games or one I love embraced.

Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095741HERESY! There is only one way to game! Only one game to play! To invite difference is to invite the impure! It sullies greatness! It elevates the unclean!

Oh, stop or else Pundit will make a video of that......