As a long time fan of Cyberpunk, from the 2013 boxed set to stopping at doll art (;)), I'm extremely interested in Cyberpunk Red. I'm hoping that someone here is also a fan and is going to GenCon, where the Cyberpunk Red Starter Set is to be available. If that's the case, might whoever it is drop as many spoilers as soon as possible? I'm particularly interested in the technological updates, if any, as well as any polishing of the rules, especially the roles. I'd be happy to see mook rules, too. What little of the art I've seem is great so far and any more teasers would be appreciated.
So, with all the buzz around the cyberpunk genre and RTG Cyberpunk "rebirth", who else is interested in this particular game and what are you hoping for?
Adding to my prior wants, another is slicker netrunning. I would love to see it trimmed and attached to the meatspace a little better.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095092As a long time fan of Cyberpunk, from the 2013 boxed set to stopping at doll art (;)), I'm extremely interested in Cyberpunk Red. I'm hoping that someone here is also a fan and is going to GenCon, where the Cyberpunk Red Starter Set is to be available. If that's the case, might whoever it is drop as many spoilers as soon as possible? I'm particularly interested in the technological updates, if any, as well as any polishing of the rules, especially the roles. I'd be happy to see mook rules, too. What little of the art I've seem is great so far and any more teasers would be appreciated.
So, with all the buzz around the cyberpunk genre and RTG Cyberpunk "rebirth", who else is interested in this particular game and what are you hoping for?
Adding to my prior wants, another is slicker netrunning. I would love to see it trimmed and attached to the meatspace a little better.
You'll be glad to know...
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/05/kitbashing-netrunning/
Quote from: RandyB;1095093You'll be glad to know...
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/05/kitbashing-netrunning/
Oh, thank you! That’s awesome stuff!
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095099Oh, thank you! That's awesome stuff!
Agreed. I plan to get the classic Cyberpunk 2020 stuff as I rebuild my physical library, but that alone makes Cyberpunk Red a must-buy for me.
Quote from: RandyB;1095093You'll be glad to know...
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/05/kitbashing-netrunning/
That looks excellent. Thanks for posting a link.
The art is fantastic! The runners sound great and I like the explanation of the way you build them, too. I hope the system condenses modifiers, as that got clunky. Still, best gun game to throw dice at. That netrunning sounds absolutely great!
#1. Poser art can kiss my ass. I hope that's not indicative of the final art in the full RPG.
#2. Piss bags are now a thing.
#3. The netrunning example was underwhelming. They're still splitting the party between netrunning and realspace action, the difference here is that the netrunner can take real world actions instead of netrunning actions. It's still a seperate game.
What I would have liked to see, is an example where the netrunner interfaces with the computer control of the environment, like in the original Max Headroom film, but moreso.
[video=youtube_share;aZY-yQYVf38]https://youtu.be/aZY-yQYVf38?t=1096[/youtube]
To be fair, piss bags have always been a thing. ;) As far as poser art I don't see it. Looking at the Edgerunners closer, it's really good, detailed art. I'd have to see the netrunning in practice, of course, but at first blush it's much better and urges the team being together. To me, the "'runner in the fridge" was a big issue, which has been solved. The other was once you dive deep it became a separate, long-form run. I don't mind that at times, as deeply immersive VR (if that's still a thing) is going to be disconnected from meatspace, but if the bulk is as illustrated in the example, that's really cool.
Quote from: RandyB;1095093You'll be glad to know...
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/05/kitbashing-netrunning/
After reading this I'm hoping to have enough money soon to buy it!
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095162I don't mind that at times, as deeply immersive VR (if that's still a thing) is going to be disconnected from meatspace, but if the bulk is as illustrated in the example, that's really cool.
My work lately has been in AR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality), and I think RTal are missing an opportunity to integrate netrunning into meatspace. From the description in the article, they're still seperating VR and the real world, and I really think the future will be more integrated. The Virtuality Goggles are knocking on real world stuff like smartglasses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartglasses), but misses the mark.
I guess this is an improvement, instead of completely separate netrunning and er, shadowruning (breaking in corporate buildings), they combine the two. But the netrunner still has twice the amount of stuff to deal with and that seems very simplified, basically just another opponent they can fight. And I don't see how having floors is really any different than nodes, other than it's completely linear.
edit:
I still think the most practical way is to just have the GM run the hacker/netrunner, off screen, basically at a player's request
And i have a video to illustrate this, too
[video=youtube_share;AYCddTglqLU]https://youtu.be/AYCddTglqLU?t=6m20s[/youtube]
Jump to 6:20 or so. Basically he sends a text message on his phone (it's retro) to the hacker when he needs something done.
The more I read about it, the more it looks like the same old game.
Quote from: JeremyR;1095214I guess this is an improvement, instead of completely separate netrunning and er, shadowruning (breaking in corporate buildings), they combine the two. But the netrunner still has twice the amount of stuff to deal with and that seems very simplified, basically just another opponent they can fight. And I don't see how having floors is really any different than nodes, other than it's completely linear.
edit:
I still think the most practical way is to just have the GM run the hacker/netrunner, off screen, basically at a player's request
And i have a video to illustrate this, too
[video=youtube_share;AYCddTglqLU]https://youtu.be/AYCddTglqLU?t=6m20s[/youtube]
Jump to 6:20 or so. Basically he sends a text message on his phone (it's retro) to the hacker when he needs something done.
Not to mention that many of the hacking is nothing but social engineering, so in CP it would be left to the Face, to do so.
I think my solution is very close to yours but also to CP Red, you need to infiltrate the building because never mind if there's a net like we know it or not, no competent megacorp is going to have really sensitive data in a computer hooked to it (says he while laughing at Sony). So the face does the Social Engineering stuff, the hacker (an NPC) provides the code bits for the invasion, and the tech makes use of everything for the final extraction, that's pretty much automatized and all but guaranteed, provided the players can maintain the meat security at bay, the hacker didn't double cross them or the megacorp didn't make an upgrade.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1095213My work lately has been in AR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality), and I think RTal are missing an opportunity to integrate netrunning into meatspace. From the description in the article, they're still seperating VR and the real world, and I really think the future will be more integrated. The Virtuality Goggles are knocking on real world stuff like smartglasses (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smartglasses), but misses the mark.
I want to know more of how they're handling it. It seems as if it's just the mechanics of running the Net and VR is simply an overlay. Again, seeing it in action will help. I like how GeneSys...like or dislike the base system...does it as no matter who is "where", it's run the same.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095250I want to know more of how they're handling it. It seems as if it's just the mechanics of running the Net and VR is simply an overlay. Again, seeing it in action will help. I like how GeneSys...like or dislike the base system...does it as no matter who is "where", it's run the same.
Me too. This is a first impressions thing from a short article, and the game is only a starter. I could be off base, and the system rocks on toast. We'll see.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1095213My work lately has been in AR (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augmented_reality), and I think RTal are missing an opportunity to integrate netrunning into meatspace.
Please discuss!!!
Very interested in how you see AR in a cyberpunk world from a real tech perspective.
Quote from: Longshadow;1095245The more I read about it, the more it looks like the same old game.
Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!
I want the same game with some more balanced/nuanced stats and select revamps. The netrunning example doesn't excite me. But then again I never found the original netrunning too problematic either.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Agreed, and that's probably its main selling point!
Most of the system has stood the test of time and is still often hailed as one of the best, if not
the best, gun game in TTRPGs. The netrunning might not be the "bestest evar!" but what I've seen so far...especially when coupled with the "Get out of the van, computer nerd!" setting conceit...makes me happy. My tastes have become more narrative and less crunchy, but I'm still happy to dive into a gritty system. It'd be nice if every roll didn't involve a stream of math, but even so, CP2020 combat went pretty smoothly. What I hope they do...and this is something simulation and narrative players would both likely enjoy...is make GMing NPCs slicker.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1095259Please discuss!!!
Very interested in how you see AR in a cyberpunk world from a real tech perspective.
I actually started jotting down some notes last night. My first thoughts are, to ditch the idea of the Net being soely virtual. The future's gonna be integrated with realspace. This video is fictional, but will give you an idea of what I'm talking about.
[video=youtube;YJg02ivYzSs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs[/youtube]
And yes, the technology is real. I work with it everyday.
[video=youtube_share;uIHPPtPBgHk]https://youtu.be/uIHPPtPBgHk[/youtube]
So that ICE program isn't located in VR, on level 2 of some virtual construct. It's actually 'standing' in the bank it's guarding. People with AR displays can see it in the bank like a physical security guard. If the netrunner tries to crash it, he's actually in the bank, running his programs there. Now, imagine all hacking of physical devices runs the same. You want a netrunner to hack a security door? He walks up to it and starts 'picking' the lock like a thief in D&D!
Now it's already possible to hack AR locations by spoofing your GPS data. So we can incorporate that. A netrunner could send a GPS "Ghost" version of himself ahead to scout out the area. Using the facilities security cams to "see" what he's doing.
VR would still have it's place, but for most edgerunning, I think AR interfaces would be the way to go.
This is all off the cuff stuff, I'd want to refine the ideas further. But I think it's got promise, and wouldn't be too hard to adapt the current netrunning rules to. The big change is to forget about VR spaces, and integrate real world spaces instead.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095282Most of the system has stood the test of time and is still often hailed as one of the best, if not the best, gun game in TTRPGs.
Mike Pondsmith being guest of honor at Gencon got me thinking about CP2020 for the first time in a while and I briefly thought of starting a "where I read" thread on Friday Night Firefight.
For hours played CP2020 ran neck and neck with D&D with me and my friends back in the 90s, and one thing I can remember is the sense of chaos and mayhem that prevailed during the shootouts. As I recall (I'm at work so I don't have the book handy) the introduction in FNFF specifically notes that real firefights involving anyone except elite soldiers are likely to be mostly confusion and panicked shooting in the general direction of where you think the threat is while you try to stay under cover.
So FNFF seems like a case where the rules ended up supporting the stated design goals pretty well.
My take is -
1) They're looking ahead at the realities (or nightmare) of our current internet (Cloud) and the inevitable problems we're creating by plugging everything into it - ala CP2020. Enter Bartmoss and the big meltdown in the 4th Corporate War... the natural solution is closed networks and analog access like Star Wars.
2) This solves several major problems with Netrunning. It forces the Netrunner to be on location. I suspect using the AR Narrative and in-Net/Out-Net action economy it will force Netrunners to have their "own thing" in real-time while other PC's can do their thing and they're *still* making progress without fubarring the flow of the game... in theory.
3) The analog network-access idea cleaves close to what Interface Zero does (don't know precisely how close), where their is very little "virtual Netrunning" - and they're discrete actions. If not, then this might be the solution if all the "virtual Netrunning" becomes onerous. A good way to see this in action is the videogame XCOM Enemy Unknown. Hackers have to physically get to terminals - OR use their Hacking skills remotely - IN play to do effects. Where will be determined by skill. In CPRed's system this is where specific Programs will will that gap.
If I don't like the Netrunning Rules - I intend to overhaul it this way.
Quote from: Dimitrios;1095309Mike Pondsmith being guest of honor at Gencon got me thinking about CP2020 for the first time in a while and I briefly thought of starting a "where I read" thread on Friday Night Firefight.
For hours played CP2020 ran neck and neck with D&D with me and my friends back in the 90s, and one thing I can remember is the sense of chaos and mayhem that prevailed during the shootouts. As I recall (I'm at work so I don't have the book handy) the introduction in FNFF specifically notes that real firefights involving anyone except elite soldiers are likely to be mostly confusion and panicked shooting in the general direction of where you think the threat is while you try to stay under cover.
So FNFF seems like a case where the rules ended up supporting the stated design goals pretty well.
I remember that part as well. It made my teenage mind think about how much more bad ass solos would be and why a guy who could “John Wick” would be utterly terrifying. The system is deadly and so easy to use at the table, even with its crunch. At least, I remember it that way.
It's *still* that way. :)
Quote from: tenbones;1095450It's *still* that way. :)
It's awesome how many newer gamers have discovered CP2020 because of CP2077. I'd be interested to see discussions from them on the nuanced lethality of CP2020's gun game.
From the latest blog post for CP Red Jumpstart:
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/12/kitbashing-combat/
It's largely as I remember save a few bits and it's a slimmed down ruleset, but this one bit seems odd:
"Brawling damage scales. The higher your Body, the more damage your brawling attacks do. Someone with a Body of 7 is doing as much damage with their fists as a heavy pistol."
Punching you hurts as badly as a high caliber bullet? That was a thing with martial arts before so perhaps that’s it, or this is some abstract "hurting is hurting no matter the source" (even then that's a stretch). I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that and am eager to know more.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095473It's awesome how many newer gamers have discovered CP2020 because of CP2077. I'd be interested to see discussions from them on the nuanced lethality of CP2020's gun game.
It all serves to reenforce my belief that an RPG's popularity is largely driven by marketing. Including and above all, D&D's.
Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1095702It all serves to reenforce my belief that an RPG's popularity is largely driven by marketing. Including and above all, D&D's.
I can get behind that. I think a game's staying power is largely due to it being good, but if it's hotter than hot and popular, yeah, that's certainly going to help get it on shelves. What's cool is that such a media blitz will get people looking at a 30 year old game that's still running solid today and perhaps they'll look at other "oldies but goodies".
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095732I can get behind that. I think a game's staying power is largely due to it being good, but if it's hotter than hot and popular, yeah, that's certainly going to help get it on shelves. What's cool is that such a media blitz will get people looking at a 30 year old game that's still running solid today and perhaps they'll look at other "oldies but goodies".
I have held for a while now that RPGs need more household names. I don't care which: Warhammer 40K, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Call of Cthulhu, whatever. The general public needs a wider sense of what our hobby encompasses, including narrativist games, beyond slaying monsters and taking their gold.
Quote from: Alexander Kalinowski;1095737I have held for a while now that RPGs need more household names. I don't care which: Warhammer 40K, Shadowrun, Cyberpunk, Call of Cthulhu, whatever. The general public needs a wider sense of what our hobby encompasses, including narrativist games, beyond slaying monsters and taking their gold.
HERESY! There is only one way to game! Only one game to play! To invite difference is to invite the impure! It sullies greatness! It elevates the unclean!
Nah, you're totally right. I love seeing new games or one I love embraced.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095741HERESY! There is only one way to game! Only one game to play! To invite difference is to invite the impure! It sullies greatness! It elevates the unclean!
Oh, stop or else Pundit will make a video of that......
:D
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1095680From the latest blog post for CP Red Jumpstart:
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/12/kitbashing-combat/
Ok, that art is a little better than the netrunner article art. It still has a plasticy look to it that I don't like, but it's
better.
I'm glad they seem to be simplifying the damage track system. That thing was more fiddly than it was worth.
Quote from: Ratman_tf;1095757Ok, that art is a little better than the netrunner article art. It still has a plasticy look to it that I don't like, but it's better.
I'm glad they seem to be simplifying the damage track system. That thing was more fiddly than it was worth.
When zoomed in it looks much better. It looks more painted to me. The red background makes it pop oddly, so that's possibly a thing that makes it look plastic. At any rate, the cover with the glowing blue chick? I like it.
Quote from: jeff37923;1095744Oh, stop or else Pundit will make a video of that......
:D
That's fucking funny. I actually chuckled. Oh, Pundie, you rascal.
As another old school "bought the 2013 box the first time I saw it in my FLGS" guy, I'll definitely be buying the CP Red core rules when they arrive, but in honesty I KNOW i'll never run the game with the included rules as interlock is just too crunchy for my rules light sensibilities. I do hope to run some games in the world using my own BoL based super light cyberpunk/action anime rules.
Anyone else think this flavor of Cyberpunk with obvious cybernetic parts and trash on the streets is generic and retro as fuck? I would rather have a more modern, nuanced take, like the Android universe for example.
Also, that "quickstart" rules are well over my line of crunch. Each action involving unnecessary rolls that don't add anything IME.
I think this game will be a hard pass for me.
Quote from: AikiGhost;1096729As another old school "bought the 2013 box the first time I saw it in my FLGS" guy, I'll definitely be buying the CP Red core rules when they arrive, but in honesty I KNOW i'll never run the game with the included rules as interlock is just too crunchy for my rules light sensibilities. I do hope to run some games in the world using my own BoL based super light cyberpunk/action anime rules.
I've been discussing this very thing with a good friend and even though my current tastes are largely rules light and with more narrative games, CP 2020 is what I call "good crunch", insofar as it's easy to use. There are several things to consider in the combat system but if memory serves, they flow well and resolve quickly. To me, it's when too many exceptions exist and/or when crunch isn't easily used that I steer clear. I'm hoping they make GMing NPCs a little smoother.
Quote from: Itachi;1096731Anyone else think this flavor of Cyberpunk with obvious cybernetic parts and trash on the streets is generic and retro as fuck? I would rather have a more modern, nuanced take, like the Android universe for example.
Also, that "quickstart" rules are well over my line of crunch. Each action involving unnecessary rolls that don't add anything IME.
I think this game will be a hard pass for me.
Just set your games in a sanitized high-security corp-zone?
Can't help you on the system-crunch.
Quote from: AikiGhost;1096729As another old school "bought the 2013 box the first time I saw it in my FLGS" guy, I'll definitely be buying the CP Red core rules when they arrive, but in honesty I KNOW i'll never run the game with the included rules as interlock is just too crunchy for my rules light sensibilities. I do hope to run some games in the world using my own BoL based super light cyberpunk/action anime rules.
As a fellow BoL fan working on a Cyberpunk variant I would love to take a look at those rules!
PM Sent.
Quote from: GeekyBugle;1096914As a fellow BoL fan working on a Cyberpunk variant I would love to take a look at those rules!
PM Sent.
Quote from: AikiGhost;1096934PM Sent.
You sir are a scholar and a gentleman.
This is the final teaser until the Jumpstart is released on August 1st. I'm not sure I'm truly jazzed about the chapter teaser with hardwiring into coffee makers, but I'm open to see where the tech goes as well as how much this isn't cut n' pasted from 2020. I'm also scratching my head over physical screamsheets, however my limited understanding of Red is that not everyone can acquire and/or rely on digital media. If that's the case I can see cheap news rags being a thing. I'm getting it ASAP and will gladly dive into it for anyone desiring to do so.
https://rtalsoriangames.com/2019/07/26/kitbashing-sneak-peeks-and-screamsheets/
Oh, I can already hear the SJW screeching over the title "Rockerboy"...
I bump this for smart people and because I am drunk. Also, "The Boys" is awesome. Mucho luvo, to all.
I love how Cyberpunk Red is shaping up and want to buy it, but I also hate what GenCon has turned in to and they will not get any of my money. I'll just order Cyberpunk Red when it becomes available.
Quote from: jeff37923;1097333I love how Cyberpunk Red is shaping up and want to buy it, but I also hate what GenCon has turned in to and they will not get any of my money. I'll just order Cyberpunk Red when it becomes available.
What happened to GenCon that hasn't happened to Cons in general? Or is that it?
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1097403What happened to GenCon that hasn't happened to Cons in general? Or is that it?
GenCon has been going the political/social justice route for the last four years (https://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?31945-Gen-Con-to-Possibly-Leave-Indiana-politics). I can spend my money elsewhere.
A couple friends of mine are heading to GenCon and my only thought was "sucks to be you."
I can't justify GMing at a con where I can't even hear myself over the din of the giant cavern of tables.
Oh, holy hell. GenCon used to be a Bucket List thing but fuck it.
Quote from: Spinachcat;1097423I can't justify GMing at a con where I can't even hear myself over the din of the giant cavern of tables.
I can still remember the last time I DMed a game in the open gaming room of a con. I had completely lost my voice by the end of the session.
I can't wait for this to drop, but yeah, fuck gen con.
I played in a local cyberpunk 2020 group in my hometown around 1991-1994. We met pretty much every Sunday afternoon at the student union of the local university. I think over that single four year campaign, we had around 50 different players (at different times, not all at once, of course). We even incorporated stuff from the mekton books. Probably the most epic game I've ever played, so got a lot of nostalgia for this.
JonJon the wise seems to really like the jump start kit.
[video=youtube;6tnMOshkrZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tnMOshkrZA[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tnMOshkrZA
Quote from: AikiGhost;1097783JonJon the wise seems to really like the jump start kit.
[video=youtube;6tnMOshkrZA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tnMOshkrZA[/youtube]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6tnMOshkrZA
Thanks for posting this.
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1097446Oh, holy hell. GenCon used to be a Bucket List thing but fuck it.
It's worth doing once. It's Gamer Mecca.
After I broke my GenCon cherry twice, I couldn't justify the ROI. When I say ROI, the "investment" part was less about the cash and far more about the time spent, travel effort, GM prep and the "return" was all about the level of fun.
Pound for pound, the Palladium Open House totally blew away GenCon. Such incredible fun, some of the best RPGing I've experienced ever.
In California, I'm spoiled because we have DunDraCon, KublaCon and PolyCon which consistently provide me a better ROI than GenCon.
I've heard great things about DragonCon in Atlanta and North Texas Con and aim for both in 2020. I also have Origins barely hanging on my bucket list, but after their SJW shenanigans, its a meh. My only regret was not attending GaryCon in its early years.
Today's the day! Can't wait to see the reviews!
The few I've seen are very positive. DTRPG needs to hurry the fuck up! :)
Quote from: Alderaan Crumbs;1097860The few I've seen are very positive. DTRPG needs to hurry the fuck up! :)
The link if you wanna ruin your F5 key: https://www.drivethrurpg.com/browse/pub/13/R-Talsorian-Games-Inc/
It's up on DriveThru at $15 US now. https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/279014/Cyberpunk-Red-Jumpstart-Kit (https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/279014/Cyberpunk-Red-Jumpstart-Kit)
I've been popping in on the regular. :)
I've got mine and have only been able to glance at it between working today, but from what i'm seeing, netrunning is pretty much identical to how it was portrayed in cybergeneration's rules, with everyone using augmented reality (talsorian calls it 'virtuality').
Haha!
I did not know that a friend was going to GenCon until last night and they picked me up a copy! It will be in my hot little hands this weekend!
Quote from: jeff37923;1097904Haha!
I did not know that a friend was going to GenCon until last night and they picked me up a copy! It will be in my hot little hands this weekend!
Lucky you are missing it. The clusterf^%^ is worse than ever. They closed I-70 from about the Airport, all the way over to the South side of Indy. Took me an extra 30 minutes to drop Koltar off at the show, becuase of all the detours, and we drove in from the East side of Indy. Attendance is up. There were more than 30,000 geeks at the show Wednesday night when I drove in. The Block party was pretty awesome!