You know that is fuck up when the bad guys are not trying to betray each other and working together as a single unit.  I am just saying...

Quote from: Snowman0147;1065901You know that is fuck up when the bad guys are not trying to betray each other and working together as a single unit.  I am just saying...

To be fair the Lasombra just defected.

The Camarilla demanded a tithe of blood....and it wasn't the Lasombra who paid it.

So why did they defected?

Quote from: BoxCrayonTales;1065646Paths are a bad example. Touchstones are probably better, since their sole purpose is to let you violate Humanity without consequence.

As I said in the other thread, the entire mechanic is terrible and doesn't achieve what it was supposed to. The community only accepts its continued existence due to the toxic miasma of conformity, doublethink and general religious zealotry that permeates nerd culture.

Humanity was designed for one thing, and one thing only: To keep players in line and playing the game 'the right way', and anything that deviated means you're having badwrongfun and are doing it WRONG!  That's it.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1065915So why did they defected?

I suggest reading the whole chapter on it in the Chicago by Night manuscript (available to read if you back it).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/chicago-by-night-for-vampire-the-masquerade-5th-ed/description

However, the short version can be summarized as "Oh, wow, we did NOT kill Lasombra. We need to get the fuck out of here and away from the people running into the Middle East to get eaten by the Antediluvians."

An actual quote?

I can’t help but think of all the blood shed in Africa and the Middle East for this Gehenna Crusade, all the Cainite lives lost, of how we celebrated the one in twenty vampires who returned from conflict with a Methuselah, bloated like a tick on new power. We just forgot the nineteen fallen and where their vitae went. Who it fed. Who or what the ashes of Methuselahs summoned to the surface.—Lasombra Elder

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1065919Humanity was designed for one thing, and one thing only: To keep players in line and playing the game 'the right way', and anything that deviated means you're having badwrongfun and are doing it WRONG!  That's it.

I've always been surprised at how Humanity offends some gamers.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1065939I've always been surprised at how Humanity offends some gamers.

We never used it.  It was never a 'thing' for us, but we were under no illusions as to what it really was.  You should have seen some of the arguments that TBP got over it, a lot of BadWrongFun screeching over there, especially given some comments that were allegedly claimed by both Rein-Hagen and Achilli.

Mechanics can't offend, they're used or they're not, that's the end of it.

Okay.  So the other Sabbit clans are the ones with balls and loyalty to a cause higher than themselves.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1065937I suggest reading the whole chapter on it in the Chicago by Night manuscript (available to read if you back it).

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/chicago-by-night-for-vampire-the-masquerade-5th-ed/description

However, the short version can be summarized as "Oh, wow, we did NOT kill Lasombra. We need to get the fuck out of here and away from the people running into the Middle East to get eaten by the Antediluvians."

An actual quote?

I can't help but think of all the blood shed in Africa and the Middle East for this Gehenna Crusade, all the Cainite lives lost, of how we celebrated the one in twenty vampires who returned from conflict with a Methuselah, bloated like a tick on new power. We just forgot the nineteen fallen and where their vitae went. Who it fed. Who or what the ashes of Methuselahs summoned to the surface.--Lasombra Elder

That actually sounds pretty cool.

I wonder what the Tzimisce are thinking then.

Quote from: ShieldWife;1065957That actually sounds pretty cool.

I wonder what the Tzimisce are thinking then.

I think they're still wondering if their magical powers come from a dimensional alien parasite this time around.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1065953Okay.  So the other Sabbit clans are the ones with balls and loyalty to a cause higher than themselves.

The new Sabbat have no loyalty to any cause. That's the second reason. The younger Sabbat have decided to murder their elders for their blood and have become blood addicts possessed by the things they've devoured in the Gehenna War.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1065959The new Sabbat have no loyalty to any cause. That's the second reason. The younger Sabbat have decided to murder their elders for their blood and have become blood addicts possessed by the things they've devoured in the Gehenna War.

So in short the Lasombra accepted defeat and joined the winning team.

Quote from: Snowman0147;1065999So in short the Lasombra accepted defeat and joined the winning team.

There's also the fact the Tremere are weakened and the Ventrue aren't in a great position either so with their power balanced by the Banu Haqim, the Lasombra could seize a lot more power in the Camarilla than they ever could normally.

Joining as the Ventrue's lackeys? Never.

Joining as someone who could theoretically seize control over the sect in a century? That has possibilities.

The Lasombra have a much better history of navigating "interesting times" than the Ventrue.

Quote from: HappyDaze;1065958I think they're still wondering if their magical powers come from a dimensional alien parasite this time around.

The developers have hinted the Tzimisce will be less serial killer flesh monsters this time around than mad scientists and neo-feudalists.

The Old Clan will also be making a comeback.

So the Tzimisce will now have a strong independent base for people who want to play them in Camarilla or Anarch domains.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1065857Mechanically speaking V5 presents only one moral choice: Feed or risk losing control. Everything else is run on autopilot, to the point that it actively distracts from moral choices which aren't.

But that's because the designers were so infatuated with their Hunger mechanic that they made the game about feeding and survival rather than Humanity. What Hunger should have done is force choices to be made over whether getting what you want was worth compromising your Convictions or endangering your Touchstones, and the fact it isn't is a huge missed opportunity.

Quote from: Christopher Brady;1065919Humanity was designed for one thing, and one thing only: To keep players in line and playing the game 'the right way', and anything that deviated means you're having badwrongfun and are doing it WRONG!  That's it.

That's why I liked the way that Feed handled it. The mechanic therein is essentially a light/dark side mechanic, so automatically you have genuine temptation whenever you have to chose between them. Do you give up your humanity and become more vampiric, or do you resist? Vampirism has its perks, as long as you are willing to steadily give up your ability to meaningfully interact with the human world. Conversely, to be more human you have to give up the perks of vampirism.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1066001The developers have hinted the Tzimisce will be less serial killer flesh monsters this time around than mad scientists and neo-feudalists.

The Old Clan will also be making a comeback.

So the Tzimisce will now have a strong independent base for people who want to play them in Camarilla or Anarch domains.

The Tzimisce don't hold much appeal to me in their present form. The original Wamphyri from Necroscope , the Neomah from Exalted (despite being made by the same authors), and the devil forgemasters from Castlevania are all vastly more interesting in their application of the same basic monster-making powers.