Well I absolutely frigging love it.

http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/1313-vampirethemasquerade5thedition

I gave it a 9.5/10 on my book review of it.

I also like how we've finally gotten some meat and potatoes with the release of the Anarch and Camarilla Guides so we know WHAT the hell has happened to the two main sects.

(The fact the Anarchs are now the main competitng sect tells you a lot about their very 1st Edition orientated vision)

It's led to a really great chronicle.

OMG. Is that really the cover?

Have you run 5e in actual play? If so, tell us more about that. Were any of your players new to Vampire?

Also, how self-contained is the core book? AKA, could you run a chronicle soup to nuts with just the one book?

What are the mechanical issues you've seen in actual play? Any setting choices cause confusion/dislike among the players?

I'm sort of conflicted on it.

On the one hand, I wouldn't mind trying out the new mechanics. Heck, if I had the corebook alone, I could just invoke Rule Zero, get rid of the sucky metaplot and run a V1 game with V5 mechanics.

On the other hand, the continuation of the Revised metaplot is something I generally am opposed to, so I don't know if I should spend my money on this when I already have V1 and V20.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1063524OMG. Is that really the cover?

Have you run 5e in actual play? If so, tell us more about that. Were any of your players new to Vampire?

Also, how self-contained is the core book? AKA, could you run a chronicle soup to nuts with just the one book?

What are the mechanical issues you've seen in actual play? Any setting choices cause confusion/dislike among the players?

1. Yes it is.

2. It's very much like 1st Edition: I have been running a couple of months of regular V5 gameplay set in my own version of Chicago by Night 2018. The player characters were in a collapsed building and thus were in torpor for five years and missed all the changes from the Second Inquisition, Beckoning, and the sudden changes to the sects. All of the players were fairly experienced V:TM gamers and it was the premise of the setting being upended which got them to want to come back. The idea was Chicago was one of the few "safe" cities for vampires and it was suffering a massive population boom due to all the vampires coming in from other parts of America (to often tragic results).

3. It's not going for "everything in the sourcebook" but it contains the 7 main clans of the Camarilla and Anarchs with the Brujah, Gangrel, Ventrue, Malkavians, Nosferatu, Tremere (who have undergone the biggest change), Ventrue, and Toreador. The Lasombra, Tzimisce, and Independent Clans are missing but they do include the Thin Bloods and Caitiff. It also contains all the stats for typical enemies you'll encounter so I'd say it's very good for running a city-based game, not so much if you want to have them fight Assamites or the Sabbat.

4.  Cons: Long time gamers were a bit put off with the fact Disciplines are a good deal more complicated now in that you can basically choose multiple versions of each level of Discipline and combine them into powers. Someone at my table described it as combining Disciplines with Mage: The Ascension rotes. They liked the simplicity of "Dominate 3, you can erase people's memories" whereas now Dominate 3 is six different powers to choose from, including what was formerly known as Dementation. There was also a question how the hell Herds worked since there's now a big huge focus on them and they come with special abilities. Merging Merits and Flaws with Backgrounds also confused people and felt like an unnecessary change to them.

Pros: The players really like Touchstones and Convictions replacing Nature and Demeanor along with a loss of Appearance. Now everyone can just be as hot as they want with maybe a bonus if you're really hot as a Merit. There's also been a lot of good talk about how Willpower is more useful now as well as making sense. People generally are liking the fact that there's no points above 6 now as it means that player characters can take on Elders and ancients much easier now. Blood Potency (from Requiem) is liked even though it's alongside generation now. Everyone LOVES the changes to feeding and that if you're above 10th generation, you can't drink animal blood.

5. So far, the players LOVE the setting changes and think the whole idea of vampire hunters being a major danger to vampires to the point of people fearing extermination is great. The fact the Anarchs have gone from being the "loyal opposition" to, "people who are going to murder the Prince and take over the city" have also been well-received. They've basically reclaimed a lot of the ground they lost to the Sabbat and are no longer jokes. The Beckoning was badly described but the later books clarified it's just the Methuselah who have disappeared.

Really, now player character Ancilla and Neonates feel like they're major players in the setting.

This is my CHEAT SHEET which explained to a friend my experience with V5:

 I think this will be very helpful for players and STs. It's stuff I've found out/used from my currently on-going Chicago game.

=====

How do you play V5

I strongly suggest you try and search the internet for a PDF of Rusted Veins because I think a big part of the problem in the main book is the fact Rusted Veins wasn't included within the chronicle and you don't actually get a sense of HOW the game is supposed to be run unless you either read it or listen to the Gentleman Gamer's 7 video series on how the universe has changed.

Part 1: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgP8QN-kHS0
Part 2: https://youtu.be/G4_HOn8mmNM
Part 3: https://youtu.be/xql-QOdKMT8
Part 4: https://youtu.be/YmCiqv-T9M0
Part 5: https://youtu.be/8wtIMlxcomM
Part 6: https://youtu.be/_p0jC-RMel4
Part 7: https://youtu.be/6KmaK_IbjcQ

Honestly, you shouldn't have to have 7 vlogs to understand things or an adventure model but I think the problem isn't that new gamers can't understand V5. It's that OLD GAMERS have difficulty understanding what is different versus what is the same. A lot of gamers think all elders are dead/beckoned, that no vampire can actually meet with other vampires, and other crazy stuff they get from exaggerating the idea.

Rusted Veins and the videos above depict a "back to basics" sort of universe that the metaplot is trying to encourage you to of:

1. Anarchs vs. Camarilla
2. Older vampires vs. new ones
3. Trying to keep ties with your human life or humans you care about
4. trying to avoid people spotting you as a vampire

What Rusted Veins tells us about 5E

If you can't track down Rusted Veins, the premise is actually really simple. Your player characters are a coterie of vampires who live in Gary and have been embraced there. An old contact of them is involved in organized crime (of the shitty low paying kind) and tells them about a hugely profitable drug deal that's about to take place. Either because they're nervous, they're snitching, or they want to share the good news.

Well, this being Gary, the whole deal goes South and the cops of Gary steal the drugs and the money because they want to make a shit ton of money for themselves--because it's the World of Darkness. It's only the players who discover how much of a shistorm this has caused because the drugs belonged to Modius who has been reduced to drug dealing to maintain his *airquotes* "lavish" lifestyle. The book even nicely states Modius is shit at this and giving way too a good a selection of drugs for the price he's asking.

Modius wants to kill every mortal involved in this clusterfuck, including the PC's friend and the cops (which will draw heavy heat because killing a bunch of cops even in Gary is the kind of thing that gets noticed by the Second Inquisition).

Juggler and Sullivan Dane are side characters with the former wanting the money and drugs himself (which he can sell at a much-much better price than Modius) while being willing to split it with the PCs--he's just mostly interested in sticking it to the Prince now.

Sullivan Dane is an old man now but still spry enough to want to save a bunch of humans from an insane old elder. The book states Sullivan is fully prepared to substitute himself to be killed by Modius for the PC's friend, reminding us that while many religious people are hypocrites in the WOD--SD walks the walk. Also, it will kill Modius since his blood is like holy acid to Kindred.

Then the Primogen of Chicago arrive because this has turned into an epic clusterfuck. This allows the PCs to make a good first impression.

It's a VERY first edition and frankly awesome module that should have been included with the main book like Baptism by Fire.

Things to remember when using V5

When I use the "new" rules for 1st Edition style games, I told all of my players to basically forget the specifics and focus on the themes--which are not that difficult to remember or implement.

Here's steps 1-10 for that.

1. Have your players tell you, in detail, how your characters feed. Incentivize it with the fact they will get a bonus to skills and maybe an attribute or even discipline depending on how interesting it is. We're all adults here and a few extra points here and there is not a gamebreaker. Do you mug people, seduce them, presence them, or run an elaborate scam about New Age blood treatments?

2. Tell your player characters that if they kill someone with the Kiss, they don't have to roll for Hunger frenzies for the rest of the night. It's a small detail but it's something that highlights the terrible temptation to finish off your enemies via feeding.

3. Tell the player characters to mark something on their sheet that your character actually believes in. Like, "overthrow the Prince", "protect blacks from my neighborhood against corrupt cops and white developers", or "make sure my mom is cared for despite the fact I'm dead and she's demented."

Tell them this will help their humanity or degeneration depending on it.

4. Ask the players to have one mortal who means something to them. It doesn't have to be a GOOD relationship and I encourage it to be fucked up in some way. I use Heather Poe as an example. Your hot ghoul girlfriend who you have wanted to protect and love but you've kind of, well, made her your sex slave.

Other examples being:

* The aforementioned demented mother who is your last tie to your old life and WILL die soon.
* Your mortal brother and/or his kids.
* Dave your old war buddy who is also your ghoul but almost an equal because he still has enough of a willpower score not to be Renfield and even occasionally talk back.
* A child prodigy who you finance through art school because you, kinda, sorta, killed her parents.

5. Tell the player characters the Kindred world is still largely mysterious to them. If they have Occult, they have HEARD of the Banu Haqim, Giovanni, and Ministry of Set but note it's pretty rare for them to be encountered. Also, the Sabbat has been oft kilter for like a decade so if you're a new vampire then they're more like ISIS terrorists at best (heard of but rarely encountered) or the boogeyman everyone older than you remembers.

I.e. very much like Chicago 1st Edition where there's all manner of horrifying and terrible secrets but none of the indie clans. The Sabbat are the 0 Humanity but still apparently functional psychopaths out to save everyone.

A couple of other setting points:

6. Thin Bloods are a much bigger deal in 5th Edition than they are in 1st Edition and provide, essentially, a bunch of people lower on the totem pole than the PCs. PCs are meant to be 12th and 13th generation nobodies in the original 1st Edition so, "the lowest of the low" but this gives them someone to feel protective of since they're Queen of the Damned Lestat compared to these guys. I recommend letting the PCs know a couple or even consider being one as the rules are there and well designed.

7. The changes of feeding mean that roughly this is the case:

8th and 9th generation vampires can't feed on animal blood or blood bags. They need a herd and to feed directly from the tap.
10th generation I'm iffy on.

11th, 12th, and 13th can drink animal blood and blood bags as a substitute.

This is a big change as it gives a cost to being a vampire of higher stronger power and gives a mechanical incentive to being a shitty 13th generation. Animalism, which allows lower generations to feed on animals now, also becomes a MUCH MUCH more important skill if you're going to play a Friendly Neighborhood Vampire.

8. Disciplines are more weird and flexible but honestly I don't see much difference. The biggest changes are with Animalism as mentioned.

9. Hunger mechanics basically work on the idea of, "you need to feed every night if you want to avoid being dangerous to people." It's not going to actually affect your characters much if they don't want it to. State you have a regular supply of blood (see above) and show how but if you don't want it to be steady, it can be a souce of adventures. In simple terms, Herds are much more important in this world.

Either that or you pony up, buy Animalism, and play a Higher generation vampire in which case it's then exactly like 2nd edition of "I summon a swarm of rats, eat, and be done. Now, where's the adventure?"

But if you don't want to do that, you can always open an adventure with, "You haven't fed in three nights and are a ticking time bomb."

10. For experienced players who do want to play things like the Beckoning and/Or Second Edition I tell them:

"The Elders are still there but there's a bunch of missing seats at the table that have gotten more noticeable in the past couple of years. It really effects the Elders more than it does you because you only know one less older than dirt asshole is making your day harder, well more like 3 (out of 20), but every one of those remaining Elders knows someone that has died or gone missing. The ones that died are less disconcerting than the fact Sirrus, the obnoxious Ventrue Primogen, bought an M4 off your buddy Lenny and a sword off the internet (did he even know how to use a computer?) to go fight in the Crusades. Malkavian prank? Maybe, but it's not a funny one since he's bought a freighter ticket to Syria. Now all the newspapers in the city are reporting the occult crimes they used to cover up."

"It's only recently occurred that people YOU know, like Dave the Kindred gas station attendant, have started to go missing. Dave got arrested by the police who somehow subdued a 10th generation Brujah and no one can find out what happened to him. Probably because he was left in a room with a sunny view. Now you have to wonder, are the cops outside the club in the know? If they are, do they know what you are? Are you safe in your haven? Probably. No one is reporting vampires in the nightly news so maybe it's just some elders blowing smoke or maybe this is the end. Either way, you still need to feed and the gorgeous girl across the nightclub has been eyeing you all night. She's probably not a plant."

It's not something that has affected everyone except the Tremere personally but is a source of paranoia and fear.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1063527I'm sort of conflicted on it.

On the one hand, I wouldn't mind trying out the new mechanics. Heck, if I had the corebook alone, I could just invoke Rule Zero, get rid of the sucky metaplot and run a V1 game with V5 mechanics.

On the other hand, the continuation of the Revised metaplot is something I generally am opposed to, so I don't know if I should spend my money on this when I already have V1 and V20.

They've kind of royally backed from Revised, haven't they?

Quote from: CTPhipps;1063544They've kind of royally backed from Revised, haven't they?

Maybe, but I never liked the metaplot.

I prefer my Gangrel in the Camarilla and the Ravnos as a full clan.

Though once finances improve for me, I may buy V5.

Quote from: CTPhipps;1063541People generally are liking the fact that there's no points above 6 now as it means that player characters can take on Elders and ancients much easier now.

Not sure I particularly like this myself. Elders and Ancients shouldn't be easy to deal with at all.

Also, this doesn't sound like it bodes well for the next edition of Werewolf and the enhanced stats from changing forms.

Quote from: Doc Sammy;1063545Maybe, but I never liked the metaplot.

I prefer my Gangrel in the Camarilla and the Ravnos as a full clan.

Though once finances improve for me, I may buy V5.

Well, the Gangrel are now part of the Anarchs according to the Gangrel and Anarchs. The Brujah also were driven from the Camarilla except for the Loyalists.

So the Anarchs are Gangrel, Brujah, and the Ministry (Followers of Set).

The Camarilla really fucked up getting rid of everyone who can actually fight worth a damn.

Quote from: Orphan81;1063553Not sure I particularly like this myself. Elders and Ancients shouldn't be easy to deal with at all.

Also, this doesn't sound like it bodes well for the next edition of Werewolf and the enhanced stats from changing forms.

I think they've more or less stated that they're going to nerf Rage so that vampires and werewolves will be able to fight.

So werewolves will have enhanced strength but that won't be that much different than Potence.

Rage will bonus dice to hit rather than extra actions.

FYI, here's how character sheets work now for CHICAGO BY NIGHT and other sourcebooks:

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/200664283/chicago-by-night-for-vampire-the-masquerade-5th-ed/posts/2333196

Anita Wainwright  

Epitaph: Anarch Intelligence Exchange
Quote: "I know you have this misconception that all Anarchs are mindless thugs. I'm here to convince you otherwise."
Clan: Brujah  

Mortal Days: Natural Rebel  

Anita Wainwright has been fighting The Man since the 1950s, when she was a student at the University of Illinois. She took several Freedom Rides with mixed-race groups on public buses to Alabama, challenging the non-enforcement of illegal bus segregation laid down by Morgan v. Virginia. She joined up with the Diggers in New York City and ran a Free Store in Chicago, writing for a local underground newspaper, the Chicago Seed. Throughout her young adult life, she flitted from cause to cause, passionately believing in revolution through communal deeds -- that helping the common man would leave to the overthrow of the rich and powerful.  

During her time as a reporter for the Seed, she met a Black Panther named Theodore Dooley. She quickly struck up an intimate relationship with him. The relationship was the final straw for her conservative parents, who disowned her over her refusal to stop seeing Dooley. Spurred by the fight with her parents, she threw herself more fiercely into her activism, which was subtly encouraged by Dooley.  

Anita was one of the organizers who helped plan the Vietnam War protests at the Chicago Democratic National Convention in 1968. Police were sent to break up the protests, and Anita lost Dooley in the crowd before she was badly beaten by an officer.

After she recovered, she went looking for Dooley to find out what happened to him. After several days and nights of searching, she eventually found him in the basement of the building acting as the headquarters for the Black Panthers. She stumbled across him drinking the blood of the cop that had beaten her in the protest. At first, she was horrified, but she quickly accepted the situation, even before Dooley had a chance to explain. She saw the act not just as a literal thirst for blood, but a metaphorical one. She was angry and wanted vengeance. They spent a few nights together, and by the end of it, Anita convinced Dooley to Embrace her.  

Kindred Nights: At the Cusp  

At first, Anita used her new-found Kindred strength to dive more fully into the concerns of the human world. But as the '70s came and went, her involvement in mortal society waned, as she and Dooley turned their attentions to the reformation of Kindred society instead. Her passion for change, and propensity for bloodthirsty revenge, hasn't diminished one iota, however, and she is one of the few Anarchs in Chicago to develop connections all over the country. "Think locally, act globally," she would often say, as she would spend countless nights making phone calls, writing letters, and even risking dangerous travel to meet with potential allies in her cause.  

By the '90s, Camarilla control over Chicago was stronger than ever, and she was considering moving to one of the Anarch Free States in California. That's when the Lupines attacked, slaughtering many of the local Kindred. She barely managed to avoid the claws of the werewolves herself, but many of her friends were not so lucky -- including her sire and lover, Dooley. Her need for revenge intensified, and she swore to find and destroy the Lupines who killed her friends.  

Anita stayed in Chicago and carefully planned her next steps. She spent years accumulating information about her foes. Her network of connections increased, as she became less discerning about the allegiance of her Kindred contacts. Anarchs, independents, and even moderately-high-ranking members of the sects traded correspondence and cell phone calls with her, all to accumulate whatever knowledge she could about the Chicago Lupines.  

Indeed, it was Anita who received the first rumors about the Lasombra coming to Chicago. She attempted to trade this information to some of her local Camarilla contacts in exchange for the whereabouts of the werewolves (or their descendants), but by the time they came to trust her offer, the Prince announced the arrival of the Lasombra "delegates" to the whole court. Her information was useless, but many of her more reluctant contacts recognized the quality of her information network. Marc Levesque has also quietly joined her, helping to maintain her network while plotting his own revenge against the Kindred of Chicago.  

Plots and Schemes:  

• Solid Ground: Now Anita has moved from "occasionally useful" to "extremely useful" in the eyes of many powerful Kindred on all sides, she wants to tread carefully and reinforce her power base before she makes any big moves.  

• Doubtful Connection: One of her Camarilla contacts is Critias. His well-known sexism worked against Anita for decades, and even though they shared a clan, she saw him as the embodiment of the patriarchal system that held her and her friends down. With the Entelechy School, she sees the potential value the elder brings to the city. Anita isn't sure if she wants to suck up to the elder (and maybe convince him to join the Anarchs), or arrange to have him killed. She doesn't know about the Eternal Academy or what happens to its failed fledgling students yet.  

• Dark Past: Anita is still extremely well-connected. She has links to Brujah and Anarchs all over the United States, and she's willing to get anyone in touch with anyone, as long as she trusts them and considers their cause to be worthwhile. She's aware that her list of contacts is valuable, which is why she doesn't disclose it to anyone. No Camarilla Kindred wants to have it known they've collaborated with an Anarch, so the implicit blackmail keeps her safe.  

• Wolf Hunt: She hasn't lost sight of her true goal: finding the werewolves who killed her friends. She recognizes some of them may be dead after 25 years of looking, so she'd be happy with vengeance against their families or loved ones at this point. She would do almost anything for concrete, first-hand information on how to kill werewolves, or where her enemies live right now.  

Domain and Haven:  

• Riverdale Community (Contacts 3, Haven 2, Herd 3, Influence 2, Resources 1) Riverdale is one of the areas allotted to the Brujah as feeding ground, back when Ventrue Princes were trying to shaft the clan. Today it's still an area where crime is too high and the average wage is too low. Anita has quietly claimed it for the Anarch cause, and no one has contested her because very few Kindred actually want it.  

• Riverdale Communal Homestead (Allies 4, Contacts 3, Haven 3) Anita lives in a house that looks condemned, but she has renovated the insides to be quite comfortable, modern, and secure. Several Anarchs use the building as crash space -- most notably Marc Levesque, her informal enforcer.  

Thralls and Tools:  

• Francis (Retainers 3) When she started her plans of revenge against the Lupines, she created a ghoul -- a young black man named Francis that reminded her of Dooley -- to help her with tasks not requiring her direct attention. Now she's more secure, she plans to Embrace Francis. Problem is, she either needs to get Camarilla permission for the Embrace (thus reducing her standing in the eyes of the Anarchs) or flaunt the Traditions for her own gain (thus reducing her utility in the eyes of her Camarilla contacts, and risking banishment or destruction). She's currently debating Embracing Francis and blaming one of her rivals for "poaching" him.

• Nation of Islam (Allies 3, Contacts 3, Herd 3) Anita hides behind mortal protest groups and foundations for the disenfranchised citizens of Chicago and Gary. She's genuinely respected among the Chicago wing of the Nation of Islam, despite her outsider status, and often relies on them for favors such as protecting her haven and tracking her enemies.

Kindred Relationships:

• Gérard (Problematic) Marc Levesque is her biggest supporter, and her biggest problem. He is passionately devoted to the Anarchs in general and to her specifically. He is also passionately devoted to kicking the shit out of Balthazar. Balthazar hasn't exactly made a lot of friends within the Camarilla, but he is still part of the Ivory Tower, so the optics of a hardcore Anarch killing a hardcore Camarilla Kindred just don't work for her. At the same time, she knows she can only put Gérard off of his murderous plans for so long.

• Critias (Work in Progress) Anita is developing a business relationship with Critias, the Brujah Primogen. Recently he's started to display both more rebellious tendencies and a fervent desire to actually help the mortals in Chicago. The big problem is that he doesn't seem to trust her because she's a woman, which rouses her feminist instincts. They perform a careful dance to not set each other off, because both see the value in collaboration.

• Rosa Hernandez (Potential) Both women despise werewolves, Anita because they took her love away, Rosa because she feels betrayed by the savagery of their nature. Anita feels the two could form an effective coterie of Lupine hunters, if only she could convince the Gangrel to join the Anarchs.

Whispers:

• National Network: Anita is the Anarchs' information hub. If you want any Anarch in the United States to know something, you only have to tell her.

• Big Game: Anita is a fearsome werewolf hunter, with over a dozen pelts hanging on her wall.

• The Little Things: Anita is such a hardcore Chicagoan that she has four stars tattooed on her back.

• Brujah Blood: Anita and Marc Levesque are lovers.

Mask and Mien:

 • Anita is a Caucasian female of moderate size. She stands 5'8" tall, and weighs 125 pounds. She has auburn hair, and dresses casually in modern styles, although she tends towards a "retro" look that seems to cycle back into fashion from time to time.

• She has a carefully cultivated appearance. Her dress, demeanor, and speech patterns are carefully calibrated to give off the vibe of "young brash Brujah," but she knows what she's doing. She can dial her revolutionary rhetoric up or down at a moment's notice to suit her audience.

• Anita uses the identity of Patricia Dooley as her Mask, the widow of the deceased Theodore Dooley. Patricia is a private woman who occasionally handles charity work at the city's children centers, her stand-offish behavior enough to prevent most deep questions (Mask 1).

Sire: Theodore Dooley
Embraced: 1968 (Born 1941)
Ambition: Eradicate the Lupines who killed my friends
Convictions: Protect my memory of Dooley
Touchstones: Francis -- the ghoul who reminders her of Dooley
Humanity: 8
Generation: 12th
Blood Potency: 2

Attributes: Strength 3, Dexterity 4, Stamina 5; Charisma 4, Manipulation 3, Composure 3; Intelligence 4, Wits 4, Resolve 5

Secondary Attributes: Health 8, Willpower 8

Skills: Athletics 3, Firearms 1, Melee 2, Larceny (Breaking In) 3, Stealth 2; Animal Ken 2, Etiquette 1, Insight 3, Intimidation (Silent Treatment) 1, Persuasion 4; Academics 2, Investigation 2, Medicine 2, Occult (Lupines) 2, Politics (Anarchs) 3, Technology 2

Disciplines: Celerity 3, Fortitude 1, Potence 1, Presence 2

Wow, this is more and more shaping up towards making me want to stick with the 20th anniversary edition rather than 5th edition.

Every change to the Masquerade setting just sounds worse and worse.... and the rules changes aren't helping at all either.... Masquerade Vampires should NOT be on par with Apocalypse Werewolves...That was the whole point of why Kindred were terrified of the wilderness, because Lupines would mess you up.

The criticisms I hear of 5th edition just aping Requiem are sounding more and more accurate.

Quote from: Orphan81;1063557Wow, this is more and more shaping up towards making me want to stick with the 20th anniversary edition rather than 5th edition.

Every change to the Masquerade setting just sounds worse and worse.... and the rules changes aren't helping at all either.... Masquerade Vampires should NOT be on par with Apocalypse Werewolves...That was the whole point of why Kindred were terrified of the wilderness, because Lupines would mess you up.

The criticisms I hear of 5th edition just aping Requiem are sounding more and more accurate.

Well this is what I've heard and I don't know anything about Werewolf: The Apocalypse 5E if such a beast will exist (or won't).

I am interested in hearing what your criticisms are. I read another thread and bluntly, it was clear they didn't understand the rules as they were complaining about stuff which was in the original game.

A few in my circles bought the book and were hashing it out in detail. Afterwards I am still not interested, especially because of the changes. I still have my VtM 1e (and some mixed edition splats), which I think of as an easier and more familiar chassis with which to tinker.

There is no 'there' there for me.

Man that game seems really complicated. I'd love to play it because I like modern gothic horror as a setting but the game seems very complex.

Quote from: Lurtch;1063574Man that game seems really complicated. I'd love to play it because I like modern gothic horror as a setting but the game seems very complex.

I felt it was simpler everywhere but Disciplines.