Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059435The Fate Horror Toolkit was the first one of their products that I own to contain such a screed. It is not a usual thing for their Fate products.

This toolkit is controversial to me because of this screed, and because they hired Bruce Baugh. Bruce Baugh I do not like one bit. But I could have overlooked his presence. If the book had just stayed on point.

There's been stuff before. I don't have a ton of their products so I can't comment on much of it, but I do know they slipped some things into the Dresden Files RPG. I recall there was one section in Your Story where Billy (a werewolf from the novels and the fictional author of the rpg) talked about women being portrayed in art and basically called out the games' art as problematic because of all the beautiful, half-dressed female villains that are shown beating Harry up. It was pretty sad to see Evil Hat use the Dresden Files comics for their art and then essentially call the source material sexist.

Evil Hat are SJW fucktards so the big surprise would be NOT finding SJW bullshit in their books.
Sounds like they're getting a tasty taste of "get woke, go broke" too! Not a surprise.

The Hollywood versions of mental illness are great tools for all sorts of drama. Real mental illness is mostly just sad and painful. They're often incurable diseases where the medications may do more harm than good, or doing little to heal the person or allow them to live a fruitful life. The real deal isn't fun gaming material. Might as well roleplay "our child has died" or "we're getting a divorce".

Also, horror is about transgression of social norms. Go forth and transgress my web fingered children of Dagon! Transgress!

Quote from: Brand55;1059463There's been stuff before. I don't have a ton of their products so I can't comment on much of it, but I do know they slipped some things into the Dresden Files RPG. I recall there was one section in Your Story where Billy (a werewolf from the novels and the fictional author of the rpg) talked about women being portrayed in art and basically called out the games' art as problematic because of all the beautiful, half-dressed female villains that are shown beating Harry up. It was pretty sad to see Evil Hat use the Dresden Files comics for their art and then essentially call the source material sexist.

Well it seems that they just canceled a bunch of the Toolkit series I was looking forward to buying. A pity. Because I really like that series.

Quote from: san dee jota;1059379I'm thinking more "Warhammer for Toddlers", like Peppa Pig... but with Skaven.

You've... obviously not seen the Peppa Pig videos on #YouTube, which I'm sure has earned them their own place among the Chaos Gods.

Quote from: Lynn;1059430It is from Evil Hat. I like some of their stuff - especially Don't Rest Your Head,

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059435This toolkit is controversial to me because of this screed, and because they hired Bruce Baugh. Bruce Baugh I do not like one bit.

Bruce Baugh wrote the Don't Rest Your Head supplement Don't Lose Your Mind, which to this day I still consider one of the best written horror books ever. And to this day the dissonance between the author and the work confound me.

Quote from: Brand55;1059463It was pretty sad to see Evil Hat use the Dresden Files comics for their art and then essentially call the source material sexist.

Trust me, they're just a hairs breath from attacking Jim Butcher himself, who 'indirectly' came out in support of Larry Correia in his criticism of WorldCon and how they treated Jon Del Arroz. There's no such thing as friends or forgiveness in this ideology, and hopefully that's what will end it.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1059499You've... obviously not seen the Peppa Pig videos on #YouTube, which I'm sure has earned them their own place among the Chaos Gods.

The fan edits/parodies?  Yeah, I caught a few seconds of one and turned it off.  I couldn't decide which was worse: the quality of the edit, or the quality of the comedy.  Either way, my two-year old didn't need to see it.

(as for the series itself... I have a two-year old.  I've seen so much Peppa Pig I can almost quote the actual episodes)

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1059499Bruce Baugh wrote the Don't Rest Your Head supplement Don't Lose Your Mind, which to this day I still consider one of the best written horror books ever. And to this day the dissonance between the author and the work confound me.

Enh.  As much as everyone likes to think everyone -else- is a collection of consistent extreme beliefs, I figure the things he cares about and the things he doesn't are pretty diverse.  And the bar has moved regarding what is and isn't acceptable since he wrote that a decade ago.  Plus "he was younger then, and needed the money" is a good fall back.  Heck, -I'd- use it for some of my stuff.

Quote from: Anon Adderlan;1059499Trust me, they're just a hairs breath from attacking Jim Butcher himself, who 'indirectly' came out in support of Larry Correia in his criticism of WorldCon and how they treated Jon Del Arroz. There's no such thing as friends or forgiveness in this ideology, and hopefully that's what will end it.

It's bad business to associate with the enemy.  Publicly at least.

Quote from: Spinachcat;1059485Evil Hat are SJW fucktards so the big surprise would be NOT finding SJW bullshit in their books.
Sounds like they're getting a tasty taste of "get woke, go broke" too! Not a surprise.

More likely: they tried to branch out into the highly competitive/highly demanding/low profit world of card and board games, and realized they couldn't cut it.  So they dropped back down to focus on RPGs, where you can make a (relative) killing selling electronic stuff and not have to deal with Chinese printing costs, shipping, warehousing, etc.  "Woke" is basically a free marketing gimmick (even if you believe what you say, you're still saying it to connect with a consumer base).  A quality game is a quality game, no matter how many pages they devote to an agenda.  Look at Exalted: it's loaded with rape, slavery, sexism, racism, and even some pedophilia, but the folks at TBP ate it up because it's a good game (well, sorta' kinda' not really).

Quote from: Spinachcat;1059485Also, horror is about transgression of social norms.

I'd argue it's about the sudden removal of feeling safe personally, with dread being the ongoing removal of feeling safe.  Horror is how you create either of those situations, with social transgression being just one method.  Mental illness is scary because it triggers that dread sensation; Alzheimers is horrific in the moment of diagnosis, but it's dreadful in the build up to that and the life afterwards.  I suppose you could say that people with Alzheimers break social norms, and that's why they make us uncomfortable, but that seems like a real stretch.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059497Well it seems that they just canceled a bunch of the Toolkit series I was looking forward to buying. A pity. Because I really like that series.

That sucks. I don't care for Fate Core, but I'm all too familiar with having a line end before all the books come out or get translated. I swear, one of these days I'm going to go back and work on my Spanish just so I can finally read the second setting book for the Anima: Beyond Fantasy rpg.

I was about to mention Evil Hat in the thread about a publisher making you stop buying - if you're not woke you're not welcome, because inclusion.

Kinda back on topic:

Imagine if gamers were not informed that people do not have hit points, in real life.  The horror!

Quote from: Brand55;1059516That sucks. I don't care for Fate Core, but I'm all too familiar with having a line end before all the books come out or get translated. I swear, one of these days I'm going to go back and work on my Spanish just so I can finally read the second setting book for the Anima: Beyond Fantasy rpg.

Fate Core I took a long time to learn. It was not easy. By any stretch of the imagination.

It was like learning a new language. But in the end, I believed the effort was worth it.

The Toolkit series always seemed to answer questions. So the ones they canceled means missed answers to lingering questions. The City Toolkit and the Infiltration Toolkit are pertty big losses to me.

Quote from: Eisenmann;1059522I was about to mention Evil Hat in the thread about a publisher making you stop buying - if you're not woke you're not welcome, because inclusion.

Kinda back on topic:

Imagine if gamers were not informed that people do not have hit points, in real life.  The horror!

One of my favorite fanfics ever is "Harry Potter and the Natural 20" wherein a D&D Wizard (and munchkin) winds up in the Harry Potter universe. One of the funniest bits ever was the absolute horror with with the school nurse reacted to the way Milo healed from injuries (i.e. like a D&D character) to the point she was actually AFRAID to try any of her usual remedies upon him because his biology was just so different.

Other points included normal people not having saving throw scores (and thus always failed unless narratively convenient), but also didn't act in initiative order (which screwed him over several times)... oh, and salt is really cheap here so he absolutely exploited that to game the 3.5 item creation rules.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059524Fate Core I took a long time to learn. It was not easy. By any stretch of the imagination.

It was like learning a new language. But in the end, I believed the effort was worth it.

The Toolkit series always seemed to answer questions. So the ones they canceled means missed answers to lingering questions. The City Toolkit and the Infiltration Toolkit are pertty big losses to me.

I wouldn't worry too much.  From what I can tell, if fans say "we want a big book of stupid shit for your cash cow" then publishers will initially say "no, because that's a big book of stupid shit, and we love our cash cow too much."  Then as time passes, and their cash cow stop providing milk, the publishers say "hey, there was so much demand for a big book of stupid shit (and we didn't have any better ideas) that we decided to cave to demand and make a big book of stupid shit to sell to you."

And then they do a new edition, because that way they can resell you all the books for their cash cow ("now with 15% new material!").

I doubt Fate Core will be any different, as long as Fred Hicks wants to sell Fate books... he has an old idea with some demand, which is better than a new idea.

Well honestly? I won't need a new edition of Fate. Because Fate Core works just fine for me as is.

I have managed to research what I want to make the system do the things I mostly want with it. So the Toolkits are just gravy to me.

The only one of them I consider important for my purposes right now. Is the Fate Accessibility Toolkit. Which is the next release.

Quote from: san dee jota;1059379"HUGS FOR THE HUG GOD!  PUPPIES FOR THE PUPPY THRONE!"

"Can I at least still have crab-clawed hermaphrodites?  I promise they won't actually -do- anything, because that might be scary.  They'll just... uh... be pretty?"

Damn it.  Now I want a G-rated Warhammer.   And yes, I know there are children novels coming out.  I'm thinking more "Warhammer for Toddlers", like Peppa Pig... but with Skaven.  "Miss Grey Seer is the busiest Skaven beneath the Empire.  Today though, she's sick.  So Sally Skaven and friends will have to fill in her work!"  "But Daddy Skaven, why do -I- have to clean out the slave pits?!?!"  "Rat-Ogre!  Grrr!"

(start a post by telling people how to adult.  End a post with a Peppa Pig parody.  Sounds about right for the internet.)

Thank you for this.  My toddler has just grown out of Peppa Pig, and is into Paw Patrol.

I miss Peppa Pig.

Quote from: san dee jota;1059510I'd argue it's about the sudden removal of feeling safe personally, with dread being the ongoing removal of feeling safe.

I agree!

That's what you get for buying books from these people.

Quote from: S'mon;1059234I agree - of course personal insanity can be even more horrific, especially if you see it happening. I guess insanity in one's loved ones is probably the most horrific of all.

Well, being stabbed with a sword or having your head smashed in with a mace is probably horrific, too, I imagine. That's what roleplaying games do: deal with horrific things, generally in a light-hearted way.

In Call of Cthulhu you see something horrific and are at first disturbed, then if it happens enough you go permanently insane. In other rpgs, you are stabbed or shot and are first slightly wounded, then it if happens enough or is severe enough, you are permanently disabled or killed. Death is pretty horrific; just consider how much money and effort and time we spend to avoid it in ourselves and loved ones.

So if you can have fighting and wounding and dismemberment and killing in your rpgs, then you can have people going mad. And we don't need a lecture on sensitive treatment of mental illness in an rpg any more than we need a lecture on sensitive treatment of someone having their head cut off with an axe.