I have been reading The Fate Horror Toolkit. And I came across a page that was down right inappropriately preachy. So much that it set off my 'pissed off' alarm.

Page 44. On Othering of Mental Illness.

This screed denounces horror taking place in less enlightened ages. Like that of H.P. Lovecraft. Which are foundational to the genre. The authors might as well have been denouncing the whole horror genre while they were at it!

Fear of the 'other' is a very primal instinctual thing. It's something everybody can relate to. And it's an important tool for a good horror GM to have in their toolbox.

Mental Illness is scarey. Both for those afflicted with it and those who are outside, looking in. It's terrifying still at a widespread level in most of the world's societies. And you know what? It's okay to be afraid of mental illness. It's okay for it to be an uncomfortable place people to explore. You don't want to go there in your games? Talk to your group about the fact it makes you uncomfortable.

I think the horror genre only needs to conform to the limits the individual GM and group place upon it.

You're suggesting players act like adults.

There are no adults left.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059229I have been reading The Fate Horror Toolkit. And I came across a page that was down right inappropriately preachy. So much that it set off my 'pissed off' alarm.

Page 44. On Othering of Mental Illness.

This screed denounces horror taking place in less enlightened ages. Like that of H.P. Lovecraft. Which are foundational to the genre. The authors might as well have been denouncing the whole horror genre while they were at it!

I agree - of course personal insanity can be even more horrific, especially if you see it happening. I guess insanity in one's loved ones is probably the most horrific of all.

One reason I rarely find HPL at all horrific is that the protagonists rarely demonstrate any personal ties. The guy who gets turned into a rotting self-aware zombie is quite horrific, but having loved ones come back as flesh eating zombies would be a lot worse.

Mental illness has been normalized, and normal behavior has been marginalized.

They teach mental illness in schools and colleges. And parents pay good money for it.

Quote from: NYTFLYR;1059255Mental illness has been normalized, and normal behavior has been marginalized.

You're not... wrong?

My favourite is the new 4th edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It tells you that if players are uncomfortable with horror and violence, those topics should not be part of your game. I'm sorry, but whilst I'm all for expanding your horizons regarding what you get upto within a setting... no VIOLENCE or horror in bleedin' WARHAMMER?

I know a lot of 'anti-SJWs' have become a bit too paranoid and leap at just about anything as being SJW these days (I don't think stating that careers are gender neutral just because it's written 'Watchman' is bending over for Anita) but in a book that played it very safe and sanitised, but didn't strike me as especially trying to earn brownies points with the RPG.net audience, it did stand out rather starkly.

Quote from: Warboss Squee;1059231You're suggesting players act like adults.

There are no adults left.

Here's a simple litmus test: you walk up to a table of strangers and ask "is this a safe space?"  You can be serious, you can be snarky, it doesn't matter.  They can reply 'yes' or 'no'.  You now know everything you need to know about whether or not you want to sit and play with them.  Accept if their answer is not one you wanted, and move on.  Welcome to adulting.

Quote from: Snark Knight;1059320My favourite is the new 4th edition of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay. It tells you that if players are uncomfortable with horror and violence, those topics should not be part of your game. I'm sorry, but whilst I'm all for expanding your horizons regarding what you get upto within a setting... no VIOLENCE or horror in bleedin' WARHAMMER?

"HUGS FOR THE HUG GOD!  PUPPIES FOR THE PUPPY THRONE!"

"Can I at least still have crab-clawed hermaphrodites?  I promise they won't actually -do- anything, because that might be scary.  They'll just... uh... be pretty?"

Damn it.  Now I want a G-rated Warhammer.   And yes, I know there are children novels coming out.  I'm thinking more "Warhammer for Toddlers", like Peppa Pig... but with Skaven.  "Miss Grey Seer is the busiest Skaven beneath the Empire.  Today though, she's sick.  So Sally Skaven and friends will have to fill in her work!"  "But Daddy Skaven, why do -I- have to clean out the slave pits?!?!"  "Rat-Ogre!  Grrr!"

(start a post by telling people how to adult.  End a post with a Peppa Pig parody.  Sounds about right for the internet.)

Quote from: san dee jota;1059379ermaphrodites?  I promise they won't actually -do- anything, because that might be scary.  They'll just... uh... be pretty?"

Damn it.  Now I want a G-rated Warhammer.   And yes, I know there are children novels coming out.  I'm thinking more "Warhammer for Toddlers", like Peppa Pig... but with Skaven.  "Miss Grey Seer is the busiest Skaven beneath the Empire.  Today though, she's sick.  So Sally Skaven and friends will have to fill in her work!"  "But Daddy Skaven, why do -I- have to clean out the slave pits?!?!"  "Rat-Ogre!  Grrr!"

(start a post by telling people how to adult.  End a post with a Peppa Pig parody.  Sounds about right for the internet.)

Your Peppa Pig Parody was excellent, though.

Quote from: san dee jota;1059379"HUGS FOR THE HUG GOD!  PUPPIES FOR THE PUPPY THRONE!"

Yes, because violence is a binary quality. There are no options between Teletubbies and a torture porn gore fest draped in entrails dripping with blood and shit.

Quote from: Xuc xac;1059383Yes, because violence is a binary quality. There are no options between Teletubbies and a torture porn gore fest draped in entrails dripping with blood and shit.

I can't tell if you're trolling or serious, but sure, I'll play along.

When dealing with Khorne within the Warhammer setting, there isn't any middle ground or "Teletubbies" option.  Khorne is the daemon god of murder and bloodshed, whose prayer is "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD! SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!" (and yes, the capitalization is necessary in this case, and when talking about "WWWAAAGGGHHH!" in 40k).  If you remove violence and horror from Warhammer as the above poster said was now a thing, you effectively remove Khorne and leave some neutered concept in its place*.  

(also, Khorne's not into shit per-se.  That might be more of a Slanneshi thing though)

(*and don't anybody get me started on that "but he's also the god of honor and valor" bullshit, or I'll put your willful stupidity/ignorant opinions on public display)

It can get a bit annoying. Sometimes it can be a-lot annoying. Its part of why I despise Fantasy Wargaming (a medieval authentic RPG) so much.

Quote from: Darrin Kelley;1059229I have been reading The Fate Horror Toolkit. And I came across a page that was down right inappropriately preachy. So much that it set off my 'pissed off' alarm.

It is from Evil Hat. I like some of their stuff - especially Don't Rest Your Head, but I had to unfollow anyone associated with the company a long time ago because of the overbearing political crap. They aren't doing very well either:

https://www.evilhat.com/home/refocused-resized-hat-mode-activated/

Quote from: Lynn;1059430It is from Evil Hat. I like some of their stuff - especially Don't Rest Your Head, but I had to unfollow anyone associated with the company a long time ago because of the overbearing political crap. They aren't doing very well either:

https://www.evilhat.com/home/refocused-resized-hat-mode-activated/

The Fate Horror Toolkit was the first one of their products that I own to contain such a screed. It is not a usual thing for their Fate products.

This toolkit is controversial to me because of this screed, and because they hired Bruce Baugh. Bruce Baugh I do not like one bit. But I could have overlooked his presence. If the book had just stayed on point.

I bought the Dresden Files stuff from Evil Hat. I loved it because I loved DF, but I could never play it because it's FATE (although I tried...twice). I can't say as anything on their list excites me, nor that anything cut from their list bothers me. Of course, I can say that for almost every gaming company these days.