I've seen some allegedly-osr games, like the 'black hack', where even things like arrows are handled abstractly (with a die that will randomly result in you being out of arrows).  But I think that most OSR gamers think resource management is very important.

Do you agree?

To what extent do you think it's important? Do you have players keep meticulous track of food rations and arrows? More than that?

Or do you actually want to defend the random ammunition dice idea?

Very few players count stuff if the number is over 10.
That's why I use 10 arrow quivers. You roll D6 for arrow retrieval with 50% recovery (sometimes modified).

I am not meticulous, but resource management/pushing luck is a big aspect. But I assume PC competence, so if the players (all urbanites who've never camped) don't know to bring necessary supplies, I am happy to have NPCs remind them. "The Lair of Badness is 3 weeks journey, and with all the neon orcs rampaging around, there won't be much hunting, would you like to buy my overpriced mule, potatoes and rat jerky?"

Very. Tracking resources like arrows, torches, food and time are critical in my games.

Hm... as player I'm happy to track resources. As old school GM I expect players to do, but I rarely GM stuff where it's a big issue - dungeon expeditions are only a few hours so water & torches (if needed) will not run out, arrows are usually reuseable IMC as IRL - I'll charge say 5gp for a quiver and PC recovers & repairs arrows after battle.

Running new school esp 4e D&D it does bug me a bit that the Hunter ranger is apparently shooting 9 arrows/round with his area saturation attack and the game clearly expects - BUT DOES NOT SAY - that we should be ignoring ammo and treating it like a superhero movie. I like this stuff to be explicit.

Its very important in Dragon Storm as the RPG is 95% overland travel so you need to track food and water.

In D&D we tracked food and water on a weekly basis. Do we have enough rations for one week? Though I still have no clue why we hit on that. I think because you could buy a weeks rations and so it became our yardstick for supplies. Ammo was another one we tracked.

Resource management's very important when I run my O/AD&D games (and close variants like S&W or AS&SH). Resources would include exhaustable items like arrows, torches and rations, but also time.

Resource management is not important for my fun. That being said, resources liked objects are something I'd rather track without abstract rules.

I find resource management to be part of the fun. Don't run out of food, light, water, ammunition, etc.

My players want to hand wave all of that and also any overland travel, etc. They are only interested in playing the "mission", don't trouble them with logistics, etc.  They are all avid video game players and I am not. I wonder if CRPGs feature logistics or if it is straight to teh fighting?

I want it to be a part of the game, as I want the threat of dying of hunger/thirst or running out of ammo to be real threats, but in practice I find it incredibly tedious to keep track of. Since having fun is the most important part of the hobby, I am constantly trying to think of ways to portray these dangers without all the bookkeeping.

Quote from: DavetheLost;1033274I find resource management to be part of the fun. Don't run out of food, light, water, ammunition, etc.

My players want to hand wave all of that and also any overland travel, etc. They are only interested in playing the "mission", don't trouble them with logistics, etc.  They are all avid video game players and I am not. I wonder if CRPGs feature logistics or if it is straight to teh fighting?

Depends on the game, I'd guess:).
At least ammo and mana are almost always accounted for, or used to be a few years ago when I last played anything. Food and water, however, are not tracked nearly as often;).
I usually tend to remind those people that they're in a sandbox, and the mission is what they decide to do.

Quote from: Technomancer;1033294I want it to be a part of the game, as I want the threat of dying of hunger/thirst or running out of ammo to be real threats, but in practice I find it incredibly tedious to keep track of. Since having fun is the most important part of the hobby, I am constantly trying to think of ways to portray these dangers without all the bookkeeping.

Same, except I don't mind the bookkeeping. In fact, there's probably more bookkeeping in my game than in most. Honestly, I don't see that bookkeeping is that difficult to manage. Is it really so hard to keep track of a few numbers? It takes all of a second or 2. Resource management should be part of playing an RPG. It can be a source of tension, aid in immersion, and make use of skills that might typically be ignored.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1033233Or do you actually want to defend the random ammunition dice idea?

I won't defend random ammunition, but I will defend abstracting resources.  

There's a lot of overlap between the two ideas (in theory and in practice), but they aren't quite the same thing.  You don't have to got full Burning Wheel style, complete resource abstraction.  I use dice-based depletion of arrows, food, water, magical charges (such as in wands), damage to equipment, and the list is expanding all the time.  It works very well for creating a sense of urgency when it matters, but not worrying about it when it doesn't.  I'm thinking about switching to currency working the same way, and for the same reasons.

Most of the time, the players have a solid handle on resources.  They have a good but not overbearing amount, and make a point to replenish them when they can.  Rather than roll for retrieving arrows, we merely abstract that into the depletion roll.  If you've got a quiver with 20 arrows, rated as a d8, then after the fight we roll the d8 one time to see if it depletes to a d6.  Otherwise, you retrieved enough arrows to keep the current rating.  If the fight was long or the character especially focused on using one resource or the party had to retreat, I might require 2 or even 3 rolls.  It's even possible to get a succession of depletion hits and run out rapidly, though unlikely.  If it's really bad, just say they are out.  

The key to making this work for resource intensive play is that when the situation changes enough that exact numbers matter, make a ruling and convert.  Or sometimes the players can even ask for it, if they need to plan.  Of course, with magic charges, they don't know.  Those stay the abstract roll, unless they use an identify spell to get an exact number.  If everyone is sitting there with d4 rations left, that's either 2 or 3 days worth.  Based on what they've been doing, I'll make a ruling, and then we start tracking exact numbers.  If the archer has a quiver down to d6, with no way to borrow some, and none of their foes use arrows, and they keep running, the player might want to know.  That's about 10 arrows, give a take a couple.  Give them a number, and they track.  In the intervals, the dice depletion thing is merely a way to keep that approximate score until it matters, with a whole lot less fuss and bother.

Its not that hard to track resources. In Dragon Storm players used pennies or whatever was handy to track supplies.

Quote from: RPGPundit;1033233I've seen some allegedly-osr games, like the 'black hack', where even things like arrows are handled abstractly (with a die that will randomly result in you being out of arrows).  But I think that most OSR gamers think resource management is very important.

Do you agree?

To what extent do you think it's important? Do you have players keep meticulous track of food rations and arrows? More than that?

Or do you actually want to defend the random ammunition dice idea?

If TFT & GURPS fantasy games count as D&D, then yes I agree.

I usually do at least a bit more than track rations and arrows. Usually the GM tracks equipment and his versions of the sheets are what actually exist except when the players have done a better job tracking/remembering and then the GM corrects his version. Pretty much all equipment is tracked, such as spell ingredients (if playing with those), water (if traveling where water isn't easily available, fuel (torches, oil, wood), and coins. Sometimes healing supplies.

Players who don't want to track can not track their own stuff very carefully, and ask the GM. It can even be a Disadvantage your character could have to not be able to count their coin or keep track of their supplies. Oh, and players could even delegate tracking stuff to NPCs, if they have NPCs they trust to do that. Actually it's also ok with me if players want to say their PC will pay attention to their supplies and let the GM do it for the PC, in which case I'll do it like the PC is an NPC as far as tracking supplies.

Sometimes there have been some pretty funny situations where some players are trying to accurately count and divide the loot (including spending time counting coins and saying "count count count count..." while other players and NPCs are guarding but starting to get up to some hijinks and the counting players are trying not to lose concentration while overhearing what's going on in the meantime. :-)

For our group, no one really got into tracking resources.  The only thing we really care about taking an inventory on are gold/treasure and defeated monsters:)