Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012645Hah hah, hey, the guy wanted clarity. I gave it to him.

You're right, I should elucidate. If I remember right, it was essentially four checks or so the guy made before it went bad. Perception checks, persuasion(seduce) checks, read lie check essentially. Failed check to check drink was spiked, succeeded to seduce, failed is NPC lying check and I did one more to check for "wingmen" on the NPCs side. Oh, and a resist drug one too. A couple other PCs on the other side of the dancefloor spied the PC being lured away from the bar kinda walking funny, failed first check to get through dancefloor relatively cleanly, made the second one and made a quick perception check to see any signs of their companion which they succeeded in. NPC gets nailed to wall literally with nails via Forces magic, PC rescued.

What I don't accept in my games is using a character as a piece of meat to sex NPCs. If every other solution is "I try to get him/her alone" (which is what it was) and the situations are getting progressively more sketchy (which they were), you can expect to get met with fierce consequences. This is what this dude would do all the time. Was too much.

I'm guessing it was a male player with promiscuous female NPC, and you took against him for this reason. Whereas female players get treated differently/better?

If you're not comfortable with male player/female PC, better tell them upfront. Or if they have to play non-promiscuous female PCs only, tell them.

This is still a male-dominated hobby and some dudes just get weird around women

Are you sure that doesn't include you? It sounds rather like you behaving weirdly to male players when female players are around.  Possibly some kind of mild white knighting reflex. I don't have enough info to know what's happening but it does sound as if something strange is going on. I see this now and then with younger male players, one guy hated that another guy played a promiscuous female bard whereas the female players had no problem with it.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012656I'm not asking for advice. I'm asking if others have had similar experiences.

Not since I got out of college.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012645Hah hah, hey, the guy wanted clarity. I gave it to him.

You're right, I should elucidate. If I remember right, it was essentially four checks or so the guy made before it went bad. Perception checks, persuasion(seduce) checks, read lie check essentially. Failed check to check drink was spiked, succeeded to seduce, failed is NPC lying check and I did one more to check for "wingmen" on the NPCs side. Oh, and a resist drug one too. A couple other PCs on the other side of the dancefloor spied the PC being lured away from the bar kinda walking funny, failed first check to get through dancefloor relatively cleanly, made the second one and made a quick perception check to see any signs of their companion which they succeeded in. NPC gets nailed to wall literally with nails via Forces magic, PC rescued.

What I don't accept in my games is using a character as a piece of meat to sex NPCs. If every other solution is "I try to get him/her alone" (which is what it was) and the situations are getting progressively more sketchy (which they were), you can expect to get met with fierce consequences. This is what this dude would do all the time. Was too much.

If you're gonna go the creepy stalker route, own it. I've known people who joke about using Forbes and CEO magazine as to pick dates, so it is entirely within my capacity to know people do this in real-life. This has happened in my games and the players had their PCs make the appropriate checks to do so (they never end up sleeping with anyone, they usually do even more fucked-up shit like drug em' and then canvass their pad for the info they're looking for etc... that actually worked very well one time but they almost tripped the alarm trying to leave through the penthouse skylights).

Fortunately, the women I have in my games had had no qualms talking to me if they're bothered by something which I'm thankful for. This is still a male-dominated hobby and some dudes just get weird around women (which baffles the shit out of me). It's even worse when they're attractive, oh my god its cringe-worthy.

When I'm saying I've got respect for what that player had their PC do to that NPC, I'm just saying I respect they didn't give a fuck. Made it clear I thought this was fucked-up (to a point of laughing at the absurdity) but hey, World of Darkness brings that out in people I guess.

It all just boils down to patterns of behavior, players' personalities bringing down the game and, most importantly, PC actions which just make no sense or are stupid and then those same actions screwing over the other PCs. Do not act like Billy Badass if you haven't got the stats for it and, especially this, if you can't figure a decent reason why'd this would work for RP. Or expect an NPCs knife through your PCs throat and hope that I give you a save and don't just crit you.

What do you mean by White Knighting? I mean it seems like you're kind of White Knighting in some respects. Its okay to use sex to lure someone off to murder them (apparently without 'dire consequences') but its skeevy and sketchy to screw someone to get close to them or get information, which does happen in the real world not to mention fiction?

Hell, its a pretty common action as far as women playing women in my experience at least as is playing 'promiscuous' characters that are at least willing to use sex to get what they want, both male and female.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012656I'm asking if others have had similar experiences.

Not in the last thirty years. Before then, yeah, but we outgrew it.

Quote from: S'mon;1012670I'm guessing it was a male player with promiscuous female NPC, and you took against him for this reason. Whereas female players get treated differently/better?

If you're not comfortable with male player/female PC, better tell them upfront. Or if they have to play non-promiscuous female PCs only, tell them.

This is still a male-dominated hobby and some dudes just get weird around women

Are you sure that doesn't include you? It sounds rather like you behaving weirdly to male players when female players are around.  Possibly some kind of mild white knighting reflex. I don't have enough info to know what's happening but it does sound as if something strange is going on. I see this now and then with younger male players, one guy hated that another guy played a promiscuous female bard whereas the female players had no problem with it.

It reminds me a little of something happens in a Shadowrun game I was in years ago. I was playing a female character and she and her brother had been orphaned at an early age. As part of her background I mention that they'd had some lean hard years during which she'd done things she wasn't proud off to survive including prostitution. Nothing luridly detailed or explicit just a note in her background that I thought was fitting and suitably "dark urban' future the GM got really weird about it, claiming that she'd have to have all number of issues, problems and diseases, etc. When he'd introduced any number of essentially 'Happy Hooker" stereotypes in the game previously.

Later, another PC (female played by a male) was trying to relax after a run had gone really sideways and she'd almost died. She met with a guy described as a friendly accquaintance, they talked for awhile then retired to privacy and hooked up, mostly as a stress relief and a need for companionship on her part. Again the gm got weird and suddenly she had a reputation as a 'slut' and was scorned by just about everyone for being this terrible person that engaged in consensual sex... or something.

Quote from: Nexus;1012720It reminds me a little of something happens in a Shadowrun game I was in years ago. I was playing a female character and she and her brother had been orphaned at an early age. As part of her background I mention that they'd had some lean hard years during which she'd done things she wasn't proud off to survive including prostitution. Nothing luridly detailed or explicit just a note in her background that I thought was fitting and suitably "dark urban' future the GM got really weird about it, claiming that she'd have to have all number of issues, problems and diseases, etc. When he'd introduced any number of essentially 'Happy Hooker" stereotypes in the game previously.

Later, another PC (female played by a male) was trying to relax after a run had gone really sideways and she'd almost died. She met with a guy described as a friendly accquaintance, they talked for awhile then retired to privacy and hooked up, mostly as a stress relief and a need for companionship on her part. Again the gm got weird and suddenly she had a reputation as a 'slut' and was scorned by just about everyone for being this terrible person that engaged in consensual sex... or something.

My female PCs are never promiscuous, but I've had enough bad experiences that my rule of thumb is only to play a female PC if the GM is female. The usual issue is that my PC gets ignored/treated as an NPC sidekick to the male PCs.

Quote from: S'mon;1012723My female PCs are never promiscuous, but I've had enough bad experiences that my rule of thumb is only to play a female PC if the GM is female. The usual issue is that my PC gets ignored/treated as an NPC sidekick to the male PCs.

Which is ironic, because that's the actual realism of many jobs/working places for girls.

Quote from: joriandrake;1012725Which is ironic, because that's the actual realism of many jobs/working places for girls.

Yeah... and indeed I have occasionally seen a male GM treat a female player's PC that way, too.

Quote from: S'mon;1012723My female PCs are never promiscuous, but I've had enough bad experiences that my rule of thumb is only to play a female PC if the GM is female. The usual issue is that my PC gets ignored/treated as an NPC sidekick to the male PCs.

Neither of those PCs in those cases was promiscuous unless you define it as "Have had sex outside of marriage at some points in their life". The second had a fairly normal sex life for a healthy adult woman her age, the first was essentially asexual for the most part. I've had players, male and female, play promiscuous characters though.  Being attractive and sexy seems to be an equally opportunity fantasy, IME.

Quote from: Nexus;1012735Neither of those PCs in those cases was promiscuous unless you define it as "Have had sex outside of marriage at some points in their life". The second had a fairly normal sex life for a healthy adult woman her age, the first was essentially asexual for the most part. I've had players, male and female, play promiscuous characters though.  Being attractive and sexy seems to be an equally opportunity fantasy, IME.

also true

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012645Hah hah, hey, the guy wanted clarity. I gave it to him.

You're right, I should elucidate. If I remember right, it was essentially four checks or so the guy made before it went bad. Perception checks, persuasion(seduce) checks, read lie check essentially. Failed check to check drink was spiked, succeeded to seduce, failed is NPC lying check and I did one more to check for "wingmen" on the NPCs side. Oh, and a resist drug one too. A couple other PCs on the other side of the dancefloor spied the PC being lured away from the bar kinda walking funny, failed first check to get through dancefloor relatively cleanly, made the second one and made a quick perception check to see any signs of their companion which they succeeded in. NPC gets nailed to wall literally with nails via Forces magic, PC rescued.

What I don't accept in my games is using a character as a piece of meat to sex NPCs. If every other solution is "I try to get him/her alone" (which is what it was) and the situations are getting progressively more sketchy (which they were), you can expect to get met with fierce consequences. This is what this dude would do all the time. Was too much.

If you're gonna go the creepy stalker route, own it...

Still not clear on the situation at the table, you used the term 'seduce' which suggests consensual flirting and sex to me not 'creepy stalker.' Seems to me that how you describe the situation is potentially close to a 'rolling to failure' situation.

But the ultimate result sounds dramatic and fun. As estar noted you should be careful of reducing every NPC to a schemer out to screw over the players as not only is it not believable, essentially a form of meta-gaming, but it also can stop the game world from being any fun to the players and encourages them to murderhobo since no one is ever going to actually help them.

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012456I've noticed as I GM more and more, I tend to kill power fantasy and preconceived notions pretty quickly and empower players who use their character's skillset to great effect or in unorthodox ways.

Care to share examples of actually empowering players?

QuoteMaybe this is because I'm getting older (I say that being in my mid 20's). Maybe it's because I've gotten to a point where I'm now teaching others how to GM effectively (not sure whether that'd be called Mastery but whatever). Maybe it's because I've dealt with shitheads many times over within this hobby. Or I could just be an asshole, plain and simple.

We don't know you, so yes, all of this is possible:).

QuoteBut whatever it is, I tend to enact severe consequences on PCs doing shit which "isn't gonna go well".

All well and good, provided you are fair about what would gonna go well.

QuoteSmart-mouthing a hired blade in a back alley entrance to a gambling den: knife through the throat.

You mean they couldn't fight him off or even dodge and run (or, alternatively, they couldn't see him approach)? OK, yeah, a non-combatant should try this stuff with a violent individual.

QuoteWhite knighting for a cause (especially OOC): feathered and tarred (usually socio-politically but sometimes quite literally).

Why? Because you hate white knighting, or because the NPCs hated it?

QuoteTrying to pick that lock for the umpteenth time: get a rusty metal cut to the fingers requiring amputation without medical attention in the immediate future.

Why didn't you just tell him "you get no roll"?

QuoteTrying to seduce a particular NPC in a club so you can "pump" them for information: better hope your fellow PCs rescue you in-time from the non-consensual bathroom rendezvous you're about to end up in somehow all dazed and confused.

Why? Because you didn't appreciate the attempt, or because you had decided the NPC is the type that would use "date drugs"?

QuoteDo others do this? Is this a thing with other GMs?

Yes.
But some do it for a better reason than others. Hence me asking you about your reasons;).

Seems like heavy handed aggressive GMing.   Certainly not my cup of tea.  As a player, I would bow out of that campaign pretty fast.

I remember not that long ago I had a Gnome in a 5e campaign and revealed the location of a place which angered some faction.

IN BETWEEN SESSIONS my character was arrested and imprisoned with no chance to avoid or any say in it. just like that.
So I just said fine, run it as an NPC as I won't be playing in that campaign again.  

Nice guy, but crap DM imo.

The OP's description of his games reminds me of my early 20s with asshole referees and players who just wanted to burn the world.  We did it for a while and then got it out of our systems.

Like the Boot Hill game where the PCs formed the "Drinkwater Gang" to play a "Wild Bunch" style of outlaws until they all got killed.  So when they needed a distraction to rob the bank, they put six cases of dynamite under the one-room schoolhouse and detonated them at 9:15 Tuesday morning.

Quote from: Headless;1012596If the DM can punish the players, then the players can punish the DM back.

Sure. Everybody can punish everybody. That's a fact. It's also rude, stupid, and immature. Most people outgrow such behavior.
   

Quote from: PrometheanVigil;1012656I'm not asking for advice. I'm asking if others have had similar experiences.

You and your group have hit a low I have thankfully never experienced.

Quote from: Gronan of Simmerya;1012796Like the Boot Hill game where the PCs formed the "Drinkwater Gang" to play a "Wild Bunch" style of outlaws until they all got killed.  So when they needed a distraction to rob the bank, they put six cases of dynamite under the one-room schoolhouse and detonated them at 9:15 Tuesday morning.

I would never run a PC who would do that...



...9:15AM is way too early in the day to be messing about with dynamite.