I have been farting around with a OD&D/OSR version of Shadowrun for many years, but its never gelled enough for me. It's gone through iterations, but I've never been happy with my results. After seeing RPGPundit's thread about OSRing Non-Old School games, I got interested in farting around some more with my original design.

My concern is preserving the FEEL of Shadowrun. My game will have none of Shadowrun's IP or its mechanics, but I want THAT feel of Shadowrun in actual play when the game is rocking.

FOR YOU, what elements or aspects or whatever makes Shadowrun feel like the unique thing that it is???

FOR YOU, what MUST be in a Shadowrun-OSR clone-ish-thingie for you to say "hell yeah, that feels like Shadowrun!"

Also, any other advice for the project is appreciated!

Elves/Trolls, magic, cybertech, gangs, 90s hair metal bands, no cell phones.


You might look at the Shadowrun Returns video game. It's arguably closer to D&D than Shadowrun, at least the combat.

1. All of what Jeemy said.
2. In my experience, expecting to be screwed over by your employer.
3. Being delightfully surprised when you're not.

I like the urban magic aspect of it. I already loved cyberpunk genre and sort of hate everyone overly updating it. I would prefer a shadow run set in the year of the original game and just update the advances in Tech to reflect the real world somewhat. I wouldn't want twilight 2000 to become twilight 2020. I like an alternate history sort of thing keeping it true.

I have read most all the books. and don't mind that having meta plot. Tend to avoid those in my games.


Cyberdecking along side Mana balls and Dragons. What's not to get

Quote from: JeremyR;763718Elves/Trolls, magic, cybertech, gangs, 90s hair metal bands, no cell phones.

You bring up a good point about the no cell phones.

The original Shadowrun's built on a vision of the future that's outdated today. How much of the future should look like the future as envisioned in the late 80s or early 90s?

Quote from: JeremyR;763718You might look at the Shadowrun Returns video game. It's arguably closer to D&D than Shadowrun, at least the combat.

I definitely will!

Quote from: Mr. Kent;7637641. All of what Jeemy said.
2. In my experience, expecting to be screwed over by your employer.
3. Being delightfully surprised when you're not.

What is a good betrayal rate?

The doublecross is a staple of crime fiction, but should it happen 50% of the time? More? Less?

Quote from: Artifacts of Amber;763800I like the urban magic aspect of it.

Explain that. How is urban magic different in your view than magic found in fantasy games?

One of the areas I have been working on is a focus on urban spirit magic / street shamanism.

Quote from: Artifacts of Amber;763800I already loved cyberpunk genre and sort of hate everyone overly updating it.

What's the key aspects of the cyberpunk genre that MUST be present in a game for you?

What part of the genre do you feel has been overly updated?

Quote from: Artifacts of Amber;763800I would prefer a shadow run set in the year of the original game and just update the advances in Tech to reflect the real world somewhat.

I liked SR 4e in 2070, but I agree that 2050 is a great setting and in many ways, the most game-able.

What did you like most about the original setting that you found lacking in later editions?

Quote from: Spinachcat;764700What is a good betrayal rate?

Low. Really, really low. Like, 5% or less at the game table, and I'd estimate the actual in-world percentage would be even lower (Incidental admin delays, probably higher).

The higher it is, the more mundane and less shocking it becomes for the players, and also, the less likely it is that Shadowrunning will have built up to become a viable career choice; yes, a lot of Runners are desperate people, but if every run ended with a screwjob then people wouldn't do it.

Everyone talks about it though, because there's no story in "so we pinched their AI core, and then got paid the exact amount as in our contract, and then we went for pizza".

QuoteWhat's the key aspects of the cyberpunk genre that MUST be present in a game for you?

I want more wierd cosmetic implants, like the gang with shark teeth from Neuromancer; useless, but cool. Or just any of the wierd shit from Fairyland,  really. Chrome, chrome, chrome. There's not enough reason in Shadowrun to just buy that sort of useless stuff, when you need ammo, foci, guns, implants, rent... (So that's your "XP for carousing!" equivalent...).

I also like things being updated, though - I don't want to be playing a professional character in a vaguely sci-fi setting who has less tech than me, so I want my character to have a smartphone, for example.

Everyone has hit the high points for me. Basically, it's the setting that does it. It's a fantastic hodgepodge of cyber and fantasy. Magic and guns and metahumans, all on the outside of the law. A dystopian world where the big corporations rule everything. And dragons.

The rules are decent, though they could be improved, as they tend to be a bit heavier than necessary. For example, a D6 version of Shadowrun would be an instant buy for me.

Fantasy people and critters during a magical re-awakening set in a high-tech, at least somewhat dystopian, setting.

Really, that's all.  Details are wide open, but those broad strokes are Shadowrun to me.

It was never finished but I was working on a campaign where it would be Shadowrun, except that all the fantasy bits would come from Warcraft.  Couldn't sell my then players on the idea though.

Quote from: danbuter;764897Basically, it's the setting that does it. It's a fantastic hodgepodge of cyber and fantasy.

And that's what I'm worried about. I am concerned at any OSR clone-ish-thingie of Shadowrun is stillborn because like RIFTS, the success of Shadowrun is a based on how the various bits of the IP mesh together, not on the bits themselves.

AKA, its not the pieces of in the hodgepodge, but Shadowrun's specific combo of those bits. But maybe not. Maybe a game with the same bits and same themes has an audience, even if combo'd differently. We will see.

Quote from: danbuter;764897The rules are decent, though they could be improved, as they tend to be a bit heavier than necessary. For example, a D6 version of Shadowrun would be an instant buy for me.

The rules are the problem for me. They've always been okay, but added a level of complication to gameplay that only increased die clatter and time to figure out who did what.

I'm surprised somebody hasn't made a D6 Fantasy Cyberpunk yet.

Dan, start a thread pimping Bushi D6. That was a fun read.

Urban Shamanism and the Matrix meshed together.

"Fuck you tech bastards my technology spirit says differently so start dealing with it before I get really serious".

Quote from: Ladybird;764777I want more wierd cosmetic implants, like the gang with shark teeth from Neuromancer; useless, but cool.

Definitely!

Since fast healing is basic in most RPGs, I wanted to weave that into the world so in addition to fast regen, there would be lots of easy access to body modification tech as a fashion statement. AKA, Paris says a 3rd ear is all the rage this spring.

Quote from: Ladybird;764777There's not enough reason in Shadowrun to just buy that sort of useless stuff, when you need ammo, foci, guns, implants, rent... (So that's your "XP for carousing!" equivalent...)

True. I definitely want to develop different reasons beyond combat needs to spend money.

Quote from: Ladybird;764777I also like things being updated, though - I don't want to be playing a professional character in a vaguely sci-fi setting who has less tech than me, so I want my character to have a smartphone, for example.

I agree, but I plan to mess around with tech. AKA, what if all the conspiracy theories about ISPs/cable companies were real and the 2014 iPhone allowed cheap freedom unheard of in the corporate future?

I loved the fact that 5th Edition has Qi Tattoos for adepts.  Because it just isn't Shadowrun without tattoos and piercings.  

JG

Sorry took me a while not use to people wanting my Opinion


S-Cat

Explain that. How is urban magic different in your view than magic found in fantasy games?

One of the areas I have been working on is a focus on urban spirit magic / street shamanism.

I see Urban magic as , well . . Less magical. Approached from a more scientific point of view I guess. Magic that is integrated with technology and assumed a part of it. Like how mages are also wage slaves for the corps, doing security etc. Not as much mystery and hocus pocus I think.

I love spirit magic as a concept anyways. Gives a lot of Roleplaying chances for the GM and Player.



What's the key aspects of the cyberpunk genre that MUST be present in a game for you?

What part of the genre do you feel has been overly updated?

Well Cyberspace is pretty much a must for an RPG game. In my literature it is not an absolute. Dystopic Environments with a glimmer of hope. A sort of lax morality brought on by environment. I still want the characters to be heroes but not good guys.

As far as the genre game wise I want them to update the technology to closer match ours but don't fast forward the world time line. If its started out as 2050 why make it 2070 just to include blue tooth. I prefer at some point an alternate time line and update the technology not advance the game worlds time line.



I liked SR 4e in 2070, but I agree that 2050 is a great setting and in many ways, the most game-able.

What did you like most about the original setting that you found lacking in later editions?

Mainly the advancement of time line. Altering the world when it was already interesting and playable is a waste to me. I don't want to have to learn new stuff. I barely function with the original story. I like the books being consistent and adopting a timeline but don't need it for my game. I like working from a set of basics and not over doing details by adding new story. I could run shadow run from the basic 1st edition story for 10 years and not need new stuff especially if any new stuff (Advanced timeline) screws with what I have done in the game. I feel this way about all games/campaigns. If I ran Forgotten realms it would be from the first world books and nothing else. Same for a lot of RPgs.

Later

IMHO, Shadowrun is most enjoyable when being played as an over-the-top, quite gonzo, 1980's-action-movie game with fantasy and cyberpunk elements thrown in for a good measure.

My points about that:

1) Coolness tramps EVERYTHING. If you have to choose between a cool but unrealistic element and a mundane but realistic element, choose the cool element every time.

2) This is a future as imagined in 1989 but with strong fantasy elements. Resist the urge to add smartphones, wi-fi or nanotech, or even a realistic internet. SR4 added many of these elements and thus lost much of the original flavour of the setting. Keyboard-sized cyberdecks with physical wire connections, obviously mechanical chrome cyberlimbs and ATM-sized street vid-phone/computer terminals are the way to go.

3) Aesthetic is 1980's aesthetic, dialed up to 11. Think pink Mohawks, outrageous 1980's fashion, corporate suits with outlandishly big shoulder pads, enormous amount of punk-style piercing, biker garb, cars and bikes looking like sci-fi ones as imagined in the 1980's.

4) The future history is as imagined in 1989, with strong fantasy elements. Resist the urge to include things too much like the War on Terror or make China a superpower. Japan is the big tech-superpower, and Japanese corps are powerful and numerous; the Soviet Union is probably around, though very stagnated and utterly corrupt, and not in control of Eastern Europe; nation-states fragment and cities gain independence; EVERYTHING gets privatized, including the police; the government doesn't really control the vast slums (gangs rule them instead), which are almost post-apocalyptic in nature, and many people there live off the grid.

5) Magic brings with it world-threatening conspiratorial threats, e.g. immortal elves, Aztaln blood magic, Earthdawn's Horrors and Bug Spirits.

To get into the right mood for retro-SR, go watch 1980's action movies, especially ones with sci-fi/cyberpunk elements (e.g. Bladerunner, Robocop, Terminator, Escape from NY, Akira, Aliens, Mad Max 2: Road Warrior) and play early 1990's cyberpunk computer games such as System Shock, Crusader: No Remorse, Quarantine and the SNES and Genesis versions of Shadowrun.

Quote from: Spinachcat;764700Explain that. How is urban magic different in your view than magic found in fantasy games?

For me, it's digital tablets instead of spellbooks, wards that are spray painted instead of chalked, etc.

Also tweaking the way that traditional spells look and/or feel - like illusions becoming holograms, or detection spells showing waypoints like on your Google Maps. Then also adding spells that focus on technomancy, like a cantrip or other low-level spell to charge your phone. That kind of things.

Hell, see the Corporia link in my sig.