The war in Ukraine doesn't pass the sniff test

[BadApple]

Ever since the war kicked off last year, I found the coverage of all of it a bit heavy handed with the pro-Ukraine propaganda.  It seemed a bit weird.  It got even weirder when it was discovered that there's active Fascist groups being financed by the US government in the war effort but the lefties were still all aboard for it.

The prevailing theory among my conservative friends was that we are involved to keep Russia from getting material to expose Biden.  Ok, but that doesn't seem to me to be enough to explain the level of support that's taking place.

Then I learned a bombshell.  The US is financing a project to rebuild Ukraine to the tune of $400billion.  The US government has awarded the contract to Chase and BlackRock.

BlackRock is the company that's been involved with pushing ESG into the work culture in the US and the culture war in entertainment.  In the past year, they've been loosing massive amounts of money and has scaled back their support of companies they've been giving money to to counteract the market losses sustained.  The Bud Light fall is a demonstration of this.  Now they are going to have their hands on hundreds of billions of dollars.

[David Johansen]

The war in Ukraine is the result of diplomatic incompetence.  The same people are still in charge and the gong show continues.

[BadApple]

The war in Ukraine is the result of diplomatic incompetence.  The same people are still in charge and the gong show continues.

Is it?  It kind of looks like an intentional act.  It seemed that way from the start to me.  I have no special knowledge though.

The big thing that was a big question mark for me though was the reason for the media talking heads shilling it so hard and so much taxpayer money going into it.  It's not normal.  Freeing up hundreds of billions of dollars to refuel the culture war makes sense to me now.

[Klava]

one question i still haven't seen answered in all of this - how the eff do you de-escalate that shit anyway? it must end somehow, right? the problem is, putin cannot concede in this, because he will loose both his crew's massive capital investments in ukraine and his "strong leader" image as well - and biden cannot concede, because if he does taiwan is next.

so...

[BadApple]

one question i still haven't seen answered in all of this - how the eff do you de-escalate that shit anyway? it must end somehow, right? the problem is, putin cannot concede in this, because he will loose both his crew's massive capital investments in ukraine and his "strong leader" image as well - and biden cannot concede, because if he does taiwan is next.

so...

The first thing is to stop the unnecessary provocations.  The White House has been putting out a lot of ad hominem attacks against Putin and Russia as well as making very aggressive statements that are not informative nor useful except to keep tensions high.  (In international diplomacy, rhetoric is everything.)

Second, address the actual desires of Russia in the conflict.  The two big ones I'm aware of are getting Ukraine to quit screwing with Russia's money and to get a better international trade situation.

Third, outline clear desired outcomes for us.  I would hope that it would be a cessation of hostilities and more stability and less corruption in the region.  (Sadly, I don't think it is which is why this war got spun up to begin with.  I think all of this is chaos profiteering and a part of the larger attempt to shift towards a more totalitarian world.)

If this was the actual message, then Russia would come to the table.  I believe they would return all seized Ukrainian lands and accept a net loss if they'd be allowed to save face and were given a path forward to better development.  I am not an "insider" by any means but I have been paying attention for decades now.  Russia isn't that complicated when you look past their propaganda.

Let me be clear on all this, I am not a fan of the current Russian government.  They aren't the poor victims in this conflict.  I just feel that making good deals that stop bad stuff and improves the lives of more people is a preferred action over punishing and keeping misery going.

[Scooter]

Ever since the war kicked off last year, I found the coverage of all of it a bit heavy handed with the pro-Ukraine propaganda.  It seemed a bit weird.

That's because you are YEARS late to the situation.  This has been brewing and planned by Putin for over a decade. He did it stay in power and divert the attention of his people away from their crappy econ.  You need to pay more attention to what happens in the world.

[BadApple]

Ever since the war kicked off last year, I found the coverage of all of it a bit heavy handed with the pro-Ukraine propaganda.  It seemed a bit weird.

That's because you are YEARS late to the situation.  This has been brewing and planned by Putin for over a decade. He did it stay in power and divert the attention of his people away from their crappy econ.  You need to pay more attention to what happens in the world.

Oh, I know that the tension between Russia and Ukraine was heavy for years.  I also know that there were some legitimate complaints by Russia against Ukraine mixed in with the BS.

What took me by surprise was the US media response to it.  The whole "you're a NAZI is you don't think Ukraine is the angelic victim" was way overdone.  Everyone switching from pride flags to Ukraine flags overnight was something else.

All that aside, your response tells me you read the first line of my first post and then responded.  You didn't read the whole post let alone the thread to see where the conversation was headed.

[jhkim]

Ever since the war kicked off last year, I found the coverage of all of it a bit heavy handed with the pro-Ukraine propaganda.  It seemed a bit weird.  It got even weirder when it was discovered that there's active Fascist groups being financed by the US government in the war effort but the lefties were still all aboard for it.

The prevailing theory among my conservative friends was that we are involved to keep Russia from getting material to expose Biden.  Ok, but that doesn't seem to me to be enough to explain the level of support that's taking place.

When Saddam Hussein invaded Kuwait, it also suddenly turned from him being just another Middle East autocrat to him being the complete devil. (Or in bed with the Devil, as South Park portrayed it.) At the time, essentially no one was cheering on Saddam Hussein and talking about his legitimate grievances with Kuwait.

I think it's pretty normal when there's a massive invasion like this that the invader gets demonized.

[3catcircus]

The black rock stuff is as a result of the fighting, not the cause of it. It just so happens that they are all in the same club as the Biden admin principals running this war.  It's a quid pro quo.

There is so much that is unanswered going back to the Obama admin. Biden corruption. Former Obama staffers like Victoria Nuland who were trying to get Ukraine into war who are now in the Biden (3rd Obama) admin running diplomacy there. Ukraine in Donbass. Literal Nazis in the local militias. Biowarfare labs run by the US but located in Ukraine.

You just have to look at the nexus of banking families like the Rothschilds, government staffers at high levels (in revolving door employment in government and industry), corrupt elected officials, MSM, NGIs, and CEOs of various industries - look at the individuals involved and their relationships with each other - it goes back decades.  We're talking members of council on foreign relations, WEF, trilateral commission.

Individually, I'm sure that these people probably think they're doing good. But when you get them in secret in groups then you start getting doctor evil type shit because when you have lots of really smart people who have zero practical experience with the baser aspects of human nature, you get idealistic good intentions thinking that always end in unintended consequences being realized.

[Fheredin]

I think I should put a few opinions in this...

I have gotten a fair amount of commentary on the Ukraine war from author Peter Zeihan. Zeihan obviously has a DoD or Pentagon contact who is feeding him information, so you have to take it with significant grains of salt, but at the same time this explains a lot of the larger picture.

Zeihan's analysis is that Putin is invading Ukraine to try to geographically secure the chokepoints you can move an army through Europe into Russia before their demographic decline gets too severe to do anything, and that the Kremlin is basically fully on board with this because Russia must put troops in these locations to survive the next 100 years.

I am not sold that a defense strategy literally formulated by Catherine the Great in the 1700s is solid military strategy in the 20th century. We have these things called "planes." But this is also a mistake I can see the Kremlin making; if you think of Russia as still an absolute monarchy, fundamentally Putin and the Russian presidents before him all the way back to the Russian Revolution are usurpers of the Romanovs, and in the politics of an absolute monarchy, that means they don't actually have the authority to rewrite Russia's military doctrine. Only a Romanov can rewrite the policies of a Romanov, and so Russia is stuck using a strategy from the 1700s in the 2020s.

As to what should happen; I have no clue. Zeihan's analysis is that the Pentagon is sending everything they can in an attempt to stop Russia in Ukraine because if Russia takes Ukraine, their next target will probably be Poland. Ukraine is not NATO, but Poland is, so if Russia attacks Poland, the US is treaty-bound to go to war to defend them. That's how you wind up with the US and Russia in a direct military confrontation, where NATO will almost certainly wipe the floor with Russia, and as the Kremlin thinks they have to do this to survive, that means nukes will be the only play they have left.

In this context, I think it makes perfect sense to arm Ukraine's fascists and to ignore the fact that a bunch of American stingers are showing up on black markets. No, Ukraine's Nazis are not nice people, but they don't have nukes and are volunteering to be a thorn in Putin's side. We'll probably have to deal with them eventually, but at the moment we have more pressing concerns like not letting this escalate to nukes.

As to the Blackrock rebuilding funds; I know enough about Blackrock and Chase to make an educated guess that none of this money will go to Ukraine.

The problem is that the world financial system is quickly approaching its limits. Global debt is $235 Trillion and global GDP is $105 Trillion, so as central banks increase interest rates to fight inflation the debt payments will hockey-stick. Blackrock and Chase are almost certainly up to their eyeballs in derivatives debt, so the money is probably not going to go to Ukraine. It's going to go to bidding up asset prices (like US real estates) to prevent their assets from getting margin-called.

[3catcircus]

I think I should put a few opinions in this...

I have gotten a fair amount of commentary on the Ukraine war from author Peter Zeihan. Zeihan obviously has a DoD or Pentagon contact who is feeding him information, so you have to take it with significant grains of salt, but at the same time this explains a lot of the larger picture.

Zeihan's analysis is that Putin is invading Ukraine to try to geographically secure the chokepoints you can move an army through Europe into Russia before their demographic decline gets too severe to do anything, and that the Kremlin is basically fully on board with this because Russia must put troops in these locations to survive the next 100 years.

I am not sold that a defense strategy literally formulated by Catherine the Great in the 1700s is solid military strategy in the 20th century. We have these things called "planes." But this is also a mistake I can see the Kremlin making; if you think of Russia as still an absolute monarchy, fundamentally Putin and the Russian presidents before him all the way back to the Russian Revolution are usurpers of the Romanovs, and in the politics of an absolute monarchy, that means they don't actually have the authority to rewrite Russia's military doctrine. Only a Romanov can rewrite the policies of a Romanov, and so Russia is stuck using a strategy from the 1700s in the 2020s.

As to what should happen; I have no clue. Zeihan's analysis is that the Pentagon is sending everything they can in an attempt to stop Russia in Ukraine because if Russia takes Ukraine, their next target will probably be Poland. Ukraine is not NATO, but Poland is, so if Russia attacks Poland, the US is treaty-bound to go to war to defend them. That's how you wind up with the US and Russia in a direct military confrontation, where NATO will almost certainly wipe the floor with Russia, and as the Kremlin thinks they have to do this to survive, that means nukes will be the only play they have left.

In this context, I think it makes perfect sense to arm Ukraine's fascists and to ignore the fact that a bunch of American stingers are showing up on black markets. No, Ukraine's Nazis are not nice people, but they don't have nukes and are volunteering to be a thorn in Putin's side. We'll probably have to deal with them eventually, but at the moment we have more pressing concerns like not letting this escalate to nukes.

As to the Blackrock rebuilding funds; I know enough about Blackrock and Chase to make an educated guess that none of this money will go to Ukraine.

The problem is that the world financial system is quickly approaching its limits. Global debt is $235 Trillion and global GDP is $105 Trillion, so as central banks increase interest rates to fight inflation the debt payments will hockey-stick. Blackrock and Chase are almost certainly up to their eyeballs in derivatives debt, so the money is probably not going to go to Ukraine. It's going to go to bidding up asset prices (like US real estates) to prevent their assets from getting margin-called.

Banks and investment firms need to be allowed to fail. When you print fiat money with no backing and continue to print it unchecked, you get where we're at today.

Let the global economy collapse - those entities that weren't facades will remain standing. Corrupt governments will collapse and be rebuilt.

[Exploderwizard]

The black rock stuff is as a result of the fighting, not the cause of it. It just so happens that they are all in the same club as the Biden admin principals running this war.  It's a quid pro quo.

There is so much that is unanswered going back to the Obama admin. Biden corruption. Former Obama staffers like Victoria Nuland who were trying to get Ukraine into war who are now in the Biden (3rd Obama) admin running diplomacy there. Ukraine in Donbass. Literal Nazis in the local militias. Biowarfare labs run by the US but located in Ukraine.

You just have to look at the nexus of banking families like the Rothschilds, government staffers at high levels (in revolving door employment in government and industry), corrupt elected officials, MSM, NGIs, and CEOs of various industries - look at the individuals involved and their relationships with each other - it goes back decades.  We're talking members of council on foreign relations, WEF, trilateral commission.

Individually, I'm sure that these people probably think they're doing good. But when you get them in secret in groups then you start getting doctor evil type shit because when you have lots of really smart people who have zero practical experience with the baser aspects of human nature, you get idealistic good intentions thinking that always end in unintended consequences being realized.

Pretty much. The ants are scrambling around the nest now because the great Ponzi scheme called US currency is about to topple over. The dollar is losing ground as a universal trading currency every day. Other nations are wising up and ensuring their economies are based on something other than hot air. The vast majority of "aid" sent to Ukraine is being funneled back through politicians who take their cut, then back to their handlers, the wealthy families and banksters who control most of the money. They know that currency will fail soon. Ukraine is just the best excuse they have to leech as much taxpayer wealth as they can before the tap runs dry.

[jhkim]

The ants are scrambling around the nest now because the great Ponzi scheme called US currency is about to topple over. The dollar is losing ground as a universal trading currency every day. Other nations are wising up and ensuring their economies are based on something other than hot air. The vast majority of "aid" sent to Ukraine is being funneled back through politicians who take their cut, then back to their handlers, the wealthy families and banksters who control most of the money. They know that currency will fail soon. Ukraine is just the best excuse they have to leech as much taxpayer wealth as they can before the tap runs dry.

From what I've followed, the dollar is doing much better than most of the other currencies like the Euro and the Yen. Also, China's economy (which used to be the recent boogieman) is doing crappy now. Here's what I see of dollar value recently:

The dollar climbed to a six-month high on Friday at the end of a week when US stock and bond markets weakened and investors prepared for a prolonged period of high interest rates.

The currency hit its highest levels against the euro, the pound and the yen since at least March after the Federal Reserve set out plans to cut interest rates — now at a 22-year high — much more slowly than economists had thought.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/fa4b83f9-9c41-49c7-b718-2de55802686d

[3catcircus]

The ants are scrambling around the nest now because the great Ponzi scheme called US currency is about to topple over. The dollar is losing ground as a universal trading currency every day. Other nations are wising up and ensuring their economies are based on something other than hot air. The vast majority of "aid" sent to Ukraine is being funneled back through politicians who take their cut, then back to their handlers, the wealthy families and banksters who control most of the money. They know that currency will fail soon. Ukraine is just the best excuse they have to leech as much taxpayer wealth as they can before the tap runs dry.

From what I've followed, the dollar is doing much better than most of the other currencies like the Euro and the Yen. Also, China's economy (which used to be the recent boogieman) is doing crappy now. Here's what I see of dollar value recently:

The dollar climbed to a six-month high on Friday at the end of a week when US stock and bond markets weakened and investors prepared for a prolonged period of high interest rates.

The currency hit its highest levels against the euro, the pound and the yen since at least March after the Federal Reserve set out plans to cut interest rates — now at a 22-year high — much more slowly than economists had thought.

Source: https://www.ft.com/content/fa4b83f9-9c41-49c7-b718-2de55802686d

Because Blackrock and Vanguard are propping it up so they can bleed as much as they can from US taxpayers before the bottom falls out. This is the very definition of a Ponzi Scheme. 

[consolcwby]

Good News! That GUM you like is going to come back in style: https://t.co/652USqWyNu
If you can afford said GUM, that is...     https://t.co/XnfMdOJyWE

https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/spam-strike-looms-after-hormel-minnesota-workers-reject-contract-offer

Meatpacking workers at Hormel Foods' plant in Austin, Minnesota, voted to reject a "final offer" contract last week in a push for stronger wages, setting the stage for a potential strike at the processor's largest facility.
"It's simply not good enough," said the United Food and Commercial Workers Local 663 bargaining committee, which represents close to 95% of workers at Hormel's hometown plant. "Hormel's record profits are just wages not shared fairly with the rest of us."
A Hormel spokesperson said that the parties have agreed on a contract extension through Oct. 8 as negotiations continue. The Austin plant is the largest of Hormel's manufacturing locations, employing 1,800 people and producing more than 1 billion pounds of Spam, pepperoni and other food items each year.

Fuel and food shortages? New Covid "InFectIons"? More fires and closings?
Yeah, sounds like the Economic outlook is REAL GUD. My opinion? By this time next year, we will be wishing it was 1999 - only Y2K to worry about, ya know?