RPGPundit's Two-Step Plan

[RPGPundit]

Meanwhile, over in another thread, the Swine of rpg.net are debating yet AGAIN the question of what kind of system will best attract pre-teens to the hobby.  Oh woe is us, they declare, that there is no firm evidence that can prove what it is that young teens want to play (except for studies done by WoTC, but those don't count because we dislike the results)! Surely, the reason they stay away is because of D20, and if only we were offering them games like "The Window" and "Dogs in the Vineyard" they would come to play in droves, they declare!

First of all, we've already covered this here, numbskulls. Both the question of "what must be done to attract young gamers", and the "stay the fuck away from the kids" diatribe have been done.

So for the last fucking time: there is in fact ONE game system and only one that definitively proved itself to be attractive to huge numbers of pre-teens and that is the red box Basic D&D!
THAT is the model that must be followed if we are to make inroads in the youth demographic again. Not any of the other shitfaced cockup ideas you morons are spewing.

In the rules-light vs rules-heavy spectrum, Basic D&D falls almost perfectly down the MIDDLE.  It has rules covering most every circumstance that could come up, but it keeps these rules down to simple mechanics, that are usually resolved by a single die roll.  THAT is the model to follow. The kids don't want Shadowrun, and they sure as fuck don't want My Life with Master.

The fact that you despise D&D will do nothing to change the fact that it is the only style of system that will attract great masses of people.  The reason for this is simple: you who advocate narrativist and rules-lite forge-derived games are freaks in the minority, even in the freak kingdom of gamers, and you don't belong, and your ideas are stupid. So shut the fuck up.

Or better yet, please, put your money where your mouth is.  Come out with a game for kids that doesn't follow the D&D format and has wild success. I dare you, you cunts, and will enjoy nothing quite as much as to watch you collapse into instant bankruptcy.

But of course, you Swine would never do such a thing would you? Not because its too "mainstream" to actually try to run a gaming company that sells things, but by virtue of the mere fact that even you don't believe your own shit.  You just despise D&D and real roleplaying games so much, you will stand in opposition of any effort to appeal to kids with them and bring new life into the game. You would rather that the hobby commit suicide than that it be filled with actual gamers playing RPGs that are fun, and that you therefore hate.

So if we want to revitalize the gaming hobby, bring lots of fresh new kids into the gaming world, here is RPGPundit's Trademarked Two-Step Plan:
1. Spike a fucking nailgun into the heads of everyone associated with the Forge, and the ruling clique at RPG.net.
2. Make a game that is as similar to the old basic/expert D&D as possible, with good marketing and sales OUTSIDE of gaming stores.

That's it, that's all we would need to do. Prevent internal sabotage from our own fifth column of stinking traitors, and stop trying to re-invent the fucking wheel, and just re-release it.

RPGPundit nov 26 2005

[Blackleaf]

So if we want to revitalize the gaming hobby, bring lots of fresh new kids into the gaming world, here is RPGPundit's Trademarked Two-Step Plan:
1. Spike a fucking nailgun into the heads of everyone associated with the Forge, and the ruling clique at RPG.net.
2. Make a game that is as similar to the old basic/expert D&D as possible, with good marketing and sales OUTSIDE of gaming stores.

Well... I'll leave #1 to you.

But the old basic/expert D&D (Moldvay) has been the single biggest inspiration for my own RPG.  I fully intend to look at marketing this outside of gaming stores, because I personally go into them so infrequently now.

I have some time away from the office soon, when I intend to finish it up and get it out there for people to start playing!  I'm aiming for Gryphcon 2007 here in Guelph Ontario will be the "launch" event.

[jcfiala]

Reminds me of a big fuss that got raised on rpg.net when someone started posting about how he was getting his 8 year old daughter on rpgs with AD&D.  *heh*

Out here in Denver, Living Greyhawk seems to pick up a lot of young gamers.  (But as we discovered earlier, RPGA worth depends on who's involved locally, and does tend to suck in a number of places.)

[Sosthenes]

So for the last fucking time: there is in fact ONE game system and only one that definitively proved itself to be attractive to huge numbers of pre-teens and that is the red box Basic D&D!

Conservative and US-centric. Wow.

[kregmosier]

2. Make a game that is as similar to the old basic/expert D&D as possible, with good marketing and sales OUTSIDE of gaming stores.

That's it, that's all we would need to do. Prevent internal sabotage from our own fifth column of stinking traitors, and stop trying to re-invent the fucking wheel, and just re-release it.

RPGPundit nov 26 2005

amen.  i of course concur with #1 as well, but leave that to you and/or whatever mooks you can muster.

#2 is very important to me also...i mean, the 'boxed set' is how *I* got into gaming as a 10-year old! (albeit the TSR 1001 version with B1 included...)  granted it was really only a "gateway game", cause after that it was Metamorphosis Alpha/Gamma World boxed set, Boot Hill boxed set, LBB Traveller boxed set

...you see the recurring theme?

not sure that the box is the thing though, as the current D&D boxed set with the soft cover PHB and all isn't exactly flying off the shelves locally.

the one thing i absolutely want to do with my game (the Dead) is get it printed up comic book-style so  a) i can sell it on the cheap, and b) it can sit equally well in a game store, comic shop, or newsstand.  

regardless, Pundit has the right idea here...rescue D&D from the lair of the fatbeards and get it out into the sunlight.  


PS.  ok, now i want to make a faux OSRIC/D&D module called "Lair of the Fatbeards"

[James McMurray]

Didn't WotC try that with a Basic 3.0 / Adventure Game or whatever they called it? I don't recall that game working out very well for them.

[Blackleaf]

the one thing i absolutely want to do with my game (the Dead) is get it printed up comic book-style so a) i can sell it on the cheap, and b) it can sit equally well in a game store, comic shop, or newsstand.

A couple of years ago I co-founded Comixpress.com a POD company for indie comics.  We had quite a few inquiries from people who wanted to use the service to print their RPG material.

I decided to part ways with Logan and Comixpress in '05, but he's still busy printing indie comics and I'm sure he'd be very happy to help you out with an RPG/Comic.

[kregmosier]

A couple of years ago I co-founded Comixpress.com a POD company for indie comics.  We had quite a few inquiries from people who wanted to use the service to print their RPG material.

I decided to part ways with Logan and Comixpress in '05, but he's still busy printing indie comics and I'm sure he'd be very happy to help you out with an RPG/Comic.

whoa, outstanding!!  thanks for the info...that's totally kickass.
i will definitely look them up when i can get this stupid thing edited/laid out.

[beejazz]

Didn't WotC try that with a Basic 3.0 / Adventure Game or whatever they called it? I don't recall that game working out very well for them.

I've had the 3.5 beginner's whatever boxed set run for me. Felt kinda dumbed-down. Then again, that might have been the GM.

[dar]

I've got the beginners box set for 3.5. It is dumbed down. It is enough to run 1st through 3rd though. My kids loved it.

But D&D minis is really what started it all off for my sons (or really pokemon cards and yugio.... uh oh).

[James J Skach]

My son is going to turn 6 soon.  I started playing Army with him (little green plastic soldiers - even a tank!). But we don't just pretend ad hoc.  I made the simplest of all rules - roll d20 against each other, attacker versus defender.  Higher role wins.  If the attacker wins, he gets to role a d6 to see  how many got hit. He loved it. I couldn't get home before he was asking to play army.  My daughter, a year younger, loved it.

I went to a con (Stuffed COWS) Thanksgiving. Though I did not bring him along (too difficult), he was fascinated.  Every time I called in to check with the control tower, he wanted to know how it was going and if I won. When I would get home, he'd ask how many games I had won.  When I told him, he would say, "Sweet!"

So Sunday, after I got home from the con, I played army with him.  And I told him we're going to add more rules. So now, if a defender is behind cover (the set comes with little fences and such), he gets +2 to his roll. Men with machine guns roll a d4 for damage, bazookas and mortar role a d6, tank rolls a d10.  Neither I nor he knows or cares whether or not it's accurate.  He loves it. He asked when he can learn D&D. I let him in on the secret, that this army game was to prep him for more complicated rules so hea could learn a little at a time. He's psyched. He even wants to go over the Sandbox(?) rules for army men - he's begging to download them.

So a "dumbed-down" version of D&D is perfect, IMHO. A system where complexity could be added as experience (player - not character) increases would be fantastic.  Mini's are essential. Don't discount the allure of those little polyhedral pieces of plastic - my kids are enthralled with them (I bought them each their own set from the con). Maybe even picto-cards for the younger set, as opposed to character sheets?

[James McMurray]

I've had the 3.5 beginner's whatever boxed set run for me. Felt kinda dumbed-down. Then again, that might have been the GM.

You'd feel the same way if you started with AD&D then started D&D. It was definitely a simpler game.

[RPGPundit]

As far as I heard, Wizard's Basic Set has been a relative success.  I think it could have been done better, but its good that its being done at all.

RPGPundit

[Gabriel]

There are now two (or three) different versions of the Basic Set.  I have the first one, which I call the "Black Dragon Set" because it has a tiny black dragon miniature.  I've also seen one with a different mix of miniatures which I call the "Blue Dragon Set" because, amazingly enough, it has a blue dragon miniature.  I don't really know if there are any other differences.   I think the Black Dragon Set is out of print and the Blue Dragon Set is the quietly produced current version.

There's also the D&D Player Pack or Starter Set or whatever it's called.  It's basically a box with a softcover D&D PHB in it and some dice.  They were supposed to have been sold with a D&D miniatures booster for $25.  However, I've noticed a few stores which have ripped out the booster pack, marked it separately, then reshrinked the Player Kit and priced it at the original $25.

[Mcrow]

A couple of years ago I co-founded Comixpress.com a POD company for indie comics.  We had quite a few inquiries from people who wanted to use the service to print their RPG material.

I decided to part ways with Logan and Comixpress in '05, but he's still busy printing indie comics and I'm sure he'd be very happy to help you out with an RPG/Comic.

Thanks for the link!

I have a game in the works that I plan to release in three volumes or ~40 pages, this would work great.