New Study proves Pundit was right

[Ratman_tf]

The original topic is much wider than just drag story hours for young kids, though. I can't tell from your statement what should be allowed or not more broadly. For example, should "Victor/Victoria" or "Kinky Boots" be banned for all minors, despite being rated as PG in the past?

I have no knowledge of either, so I have no opinion.

He's just trying to derail the conversation (again) Victor/Victoria DOESN'T appeal to a prurient interest and he knows it.

I know. I think there is some value in these kinds of discussions in order to sharpen arguments and clarify the issues. If one is gonna debate things, I think one should make the best argument they can.

[jhkim]

The original topic is much wider than just drag story hours for young kids, though. I can't tell from your statement what should be allowed or not more broadly. For example, should "Victor/Victoria" or "Kinky Boots" be banned for all minors, despite being rated as PG in the past?

I have no knowledge of either, so I have no opinion.

He's just trying to derail the conversation (again) Victor/Victoria DOESN'T appeal to a prurient interest and he knows it.

I've been citing "Victor/Victoria" exactly because it is PG-rated. To repeat the context:

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for a while, and it isn't complicated.

• Showing X-rated or R-rated sexual material to children - like the Caba Baba Rave - is wrong, should be banned and punished, regardless of drag or not.
• PG material like "Victor/Victoria" or the "Kinky Boots" musical should stay PG.
• The standards of what is too sexualized should be the same for LGBT and straight for all ages. Substituting a born-female performer shouldn't make a banned drag show permissible.

To Ratman_tf: Victor/Victoria is a 1982 comedy film starring Julie Andrews and James Gardner. It is loosely based on a 1933 German film, and set at a drag theater in 1930s Paris. Andrews stars as a down-on-her-luck singer who befriends a drag performer. They hit on the trick to have her pretend to be a male drag performer ("a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman"). Hilarity ensues when a gangster played by Gardner is attracted to her.

As I stated, it is rated PG. I don't claim that it is prurient. I do claim that it is about drag.

Some posters have been saying that drag is inherently sexual and thus no drag should be seen by any minors.

He's also super concerned about the Cowboys Cheerleaders but has no problem with the Kinky Boots, because it's not women showing panties but guys showing the package:
...
Well, if the cheerleaders should be banned from performing infront of minors then so should his "family friendly" degenerate show.

So, that is exactly what I'm saying. Yes, I agree completely with this. If the cheerleaders should be banned, then so should Kinky Boots. They should be judged on the same standard.

EDITED TO ADD: To be clear, I'm not saying that either the cheerleaders "Tailgate" number or the Kinky Boots musical should be banned. I'd consider them both PG or PG-13 at most. The point is that they should both be judged on the same standard.

[SHARK]

The original topic is much wider than just drag story hours for young kids, though. I can't tell from your statement what should be allowed or not more broadly. For example, should "Victor/Victoria" or "Kinky Boots" be banned for all minors, despite being rated as PG in the past?

I have no knowledge of either, so I have no opinion.

He's just trying to derail the conversation (again) Victor/Victoria DOESN'T appeal to a prurient interest and he knows it.

I've been citing "Victor/Victoria" exactly because it is PG-rated. To repeat the context:

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for a while, and it isn't complicated.

• Showing X-rated or R-rated sexual material to children - like the Caba Baba Rave - is wrong, should be banned and punished, regardless of drag or not.
• PG material like "Victor/Victoria" or the "Kinky Boots" musical should stay PG.
• The standards of what is too sexualized should be the same for LGBT and straight for all ages. Substituting a born-female performer shouldn't make a banned drag show permissible.

To Ratman_tf: Victor/Victoria is a 1982 comedy film starring Julie Andrews and James Gardner. It is loosely based on a 1933 German film, and set at a drag theater in 1930s Paris. Andrews stars as a down-on-her-luck singer who befriends a drag performer. They hit on the trick to have her pretend to be a male drag performer ("a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman"). Hilarity ensues when a gangster played by Gardner is attracted to her.

As I stated, it is rated PG. I don't claim that it is prurient. I do claim that it is about drag.

Some posters have been saying that drag is inherently sexual and thus no drag should be seen by any minors.

He's also super concerned about the Cowboys Cheerleaders but has no problem with the Kinky Boots, because it's not women showing panties but guys showing the package:
...
Well, if the cheerleaders should be banned from performing infront of minors then so should his "family friendly" degenerate show.

So, that is exactly what I'm saying. Yes, I agree completely with this. If the cheerleaders should be banned, then so should Kinky Boots. They should be judged on the same standard.

EDITED TO ADD: To be clear, I'm not saying that either the cheerleaders "Tailgate" number or the Kinky Boots musical should be banned. I'd consider them both PG or PG-13 at most. The point is that they should both be judged on the same standard.

Greetings!

I disagree. They should not be judged by the same standard. They are entirely different. Cheerleaders are *Normal*, healthy, and good. DRAG SHOWS, on the other hand, and deviant, and degenerate.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK

[jeff37923]

The original topic is much wider than just drag story hours for young kids, though. I can't tell from your statement what should be allowed or not more broadly. For example, should "Victor/Victoria" or "Kinky Boots" be banned for all minors, despite being rated as PG in the past?

I have no knowledge of either, so I have no opinion.

He's just trying to derail the conversation (again) Victor/Victoria DOESN'T appeal to a prurient interest and he knows it.

I've been citing "Victor/Victoria" exactly because it is PG-rated. To repeat the context:

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for a while, and it isn't complicated.

• Showing X-rated or R-rated sexual material to children - like the Caba Baba Rave - is wrong, should be banned and punished, regardless of drag or not.
• PG material like "Victor/Victoria" or the "Kinky Boots" musical should stay PG.
• The standards of what is too sexualized should be the same for LGBT and straight for all ages. Substituting a born-female performer shouldn't make a banned drag show permissible.

To Ratman_tf: Victor/Victoria is a 1982 comedy film starring Julie Andrews and James Gardner. It is loosely based on a 1933 German film, and set at a drag theater in 1930s Paris. Andrews stars as a down-on-her-luck singer who befriends a drag performer. They hit on the trick to have her pretend to be a male drag performer ("a woman pretending to be a man pretending to be a woman"). Hilarity ensues when a gangster played by Gardner is attracted to her.

As I stated, it is rated PG. I don't claim that it is prurient. I do claim that it is about drag.

Some posters have been saying that drag is inherently sexual and thus no drag should be seen by any minors.

He's also super concerned about the Cowboys Cheerleaders but has no problem with the Kinky Boots, because it's not women showing panties but guys showing the package:
...
Well, if the cheerleaders should be banned from performing infront of minors then so should his "family friendly" degenerate show.

So, that is exactly what I'm saying. Yes, I agree completely with this. If the cheerleaders should be banned, then so should Kinky Boots. They should be judged on the same standard.

EDITED TO ADD: To be clear, I'm not saying that either the cheerleaders "Tailgate" number or the Kinky Boots musical should be banned. I'd consider them both PG or PG-13 at most. The point is that they should both be judged on the same standard.

You did notice that Victor/Victoria was about female impersonators performing tame unsexualized choreographed dance numbers in front of adults and thus is acceptable while Drag shows which we find unacceptable have been overtly sexual and performed in front of kids?

Likewise while we find cheerleaders sexually desirable, I have never seen a cheering routine be sexual. I've never seen a cheering routine that was done to get the crowd sexually aroused, but I've seen plenty that got the crowd excited for the team being represented.

[jhkim]

You did notice that Victor/Victoria was about female impersonators performing tame unsexualized choreographed dance numbers in front of adults and thus is acceptable while Drag shows which we find unacceptable have been overtly sexual and performed in front of kids?

Once again:

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for a while, and it isn't complicated.

• Showing X-rated or R-rated sexual material to children - like the Caba Baba Rave - is wrong, should be banned and punished, regardless of drag or not.
• PG material like "Victor/Victoria" or the "Kinky Boots" musical should stay PG.
• The standards of what is too sexualized should be the same for LGBT and straight for all ages. Substituting a born-female performer shouldn't make a banned drag show permissible.

jeff37923, you suggest that people here only want to ban overtly sexual drag -- not PG-rated drag like "Victor/Victoria". But this is contradicted by other posters here. SHARK's position is "Fucking ban all Drag Shows. Period." GeekyBugle suggests banning all drag being performed in front of minors.

Banning ALL drag from being performed infront of minors isn't an attack on no one but those who want to use it as the camel's nose to groom children. (...) Well, "innocent" Drag performed infront of minors is just the camel's nose, it's the start of the next Slippery Slope

"Victor/Victoria" is PG-rated drag for minors. So it is exactly what is referred to in the Slippery Slope which should be banned.

[Elfdart]

Friendly reminder that Elfdart is a retard and that the left ALWAYS conflates an innocent or seemingly innocent thing with one that isn't to play bailey and motte with you.

They KNOW what were talking about, they know they have no argument, ergo: OMG Muh Buggs Bunny!

Do not let them distract you or derange the conversation.

No asshole, I'm using obvious examples of why cranking out the latest witch hysteria is at best unwise and at worst the first card in a fascist version of Three-Card Monte, where bashing queers is just the warm-up act. Scratch a fag-basher and a Nazi bleeds.

I'm concerned with behavior that supports grooming kids, I'm not worried about Christianity. Why? Christianity is a big religion, it can take care of itself and has been for thousands of years.

Like the BILLIONS of dollars of hush money and out-of-court settlements they've paid to keep their victims quiet?

What exactly is "sexual in nature" about members of Monty Python dressing up like old ladies? I mean, does this really give you sexual urges?

Does not the law provide the condition "... who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest"?
So no, Monty Python or Bugs Bunny cross dressing would not violate the law.

And that is what makes the law too vague to be enforced. Potter Stewart, the right-wing Supreme Court justice wrote many years ago (Jacobellis v. Ohio 1964) that by law it's almost impossible to define obscenity or pornography (material that exists only to serve a prurient interest). If the legislators in Tennessee were interested in keeping kids away from truly obscene or pornographic live shows, and not just groping for a tool to bash queers and trannies, there is a way they could have written such a law. But it's kind of obvious that drag show hysteria is about the latter.

The government should act against what is known harmful to kids -- child abuse and explicit sexual displays.

The government. The same one pushing poison masquerading as vaccines and shutting down skateparks by filling them up with sand? The one sending billions of dollars to the Ukraine to ensure some faggot ass motherfucking Ukrainians have their retirement accounts funded while inflation spirals out of control? That one?

You are real human or simply a meat robot at this point? You have the most retarded possible takes for someone who is allegedly "educated". Actually, your takes line up precisely with the utterly retarded nonsense that fucking dumbasses with degrees from universities seem to always have. It's amazing how brainwashed and stupid you are, and yet completely unable to realize it. Just like all the other leftists who have been brainwashed into thinking they have the moral high ground while they erode Western society into dust. When they line your ass up at the gulag will you even realize the bullet hitting your skull is actually bad for you, or will you think it's the best possible idea because the state deemed it so?

I used to think this sort of shit was obnoxious, now I realize the clowns have taken over so I'm just gonna enjoy the circus.

So we're just a step away from the gulag because:

1) Vaccines
2) They shut down a skateboard park in San Clemente, CA for six weeks -three years ago
3) The US is giving weapons to Ukraine to try to fight off a Russian invasion, and apparently Ukrainians are homos.
4) Inflation
5) Jhkim doesn't buy into the latest scare campaign ginned up by fascists.

And here I thought it was the commies who did the gulags.

[GeekyBugle]

Friendly reminder that Elfdart is a retard and that the left ALWAYS conflates an innocent or seemingly innocent thing with one that isn't to play bailey and motte with you.

They KNOW what were talking about, they know they have no argument, ergo: OMG Muh Buggs Bunny!

Do not let them distract you or derange the conversation.

No asshole, I'm using obvious examples of why cranking out the latest witch hysteria is at best unwise and at worst the first card in a fascist version of Three-Card Monte, where bashing queers is just the warm-up act. Scratch a fag-basher and a Nazi bleeds.

I'm concerned with behavior that supports grooming kids, I'm not worried about Christianity. Why? Christianity is a big religion, it can take care of itself and has been for thousands of years.

Like the BILLIONS of dollars of hush money and out-of-court settlements they've paid to keep their victims quiet?

What exactly is "sexual in nature" about members of Monty Python dressing up like old ladies? I mean, does this really give you sexual urges?

Does not the law provide the condition "... who provide entertainment that appeals to a prurient interest"?
So no, Monty Python or Bugs Bunny cross dressing would not violate the law.

And that is what makes the law too vague to be enforced. Potter Stewart, the right-wing Supreme Court justice wrote many years ago (Jacobellis v. Ohio 1964) that by law it's almost impossible to define obscenity or pornography (material that exists only to serve a prurient interest). If the legislators in Tennessee were interested in keeping kids away from truly obscene or pornographic live shows, and not just groping for a tool to bash queers and trannies, there is a way they could have written such a law. But it's kind of obvious that drag show hysteria is about the latter.

The government should act against what is known harmful to kids -- child abuse and explicit sexual displays.

The government. The same one pushing poison masquerading as vaccines and shutting down skateparks by filling them up with sand? The one sending billions of dollars to the Ukraine to ensure some faggot ass motherfucking Ukrainians have their retirement accounts funded while inflation spirals out of control? That one?

You are real human or simply a meat robot at this point? You have the most retarded possible takes for someone who is allegedly "educated". Actually, your takes line up precisely with the utterly retarded nonsense that fucking dumbasses with degrees from universities seem to always have. It's amazing how brainwashed and stupid you are, and yet completely unable to realize it. Just like all the other leftists who have been brainwashed into thinking they have the moral high ground while they erode Western society into dust. When they line your ass up at the gulag will you even realize the bullet hitting your skull is actually bad for you, or will you think it's the best possible idea because the state deemed it so?

I used to think this sort of shit was obnoxious, now I realize the clowns have taken over so I'm just gonna enjoy the circus.

So we're just a step away from the gulag because:

1) Vaccines
2) They shut down a skateboard park in San Clemente, CA for six weeks -three years ago
3) The US is giving weapons to Ukraine to try to fight off a Russian invasion, and apparently Ukrainians are homos.
4) Inflation
5) Jhkim doesn't buy into the latest scare campaign ginned up by fascists.

And here I thought it was the commies who did the gulags.

Hey retard, let me explain some things very slowly to you, maybe then you might stand a chance to understand:

Drag =/= "Trannies"
Queers =/= LGBT

From what the Queers say and push maybe some of them deserve some legal bashing (as in throw them in jail for pedos and dog fuckers).

I love to remind you that Che, and every other commie scum murdered way more gays than the other type of socialists (Nazis and Fascists). Given that I'm not (and never was) a socialist or commie scum of ANY type it's YOU who is closer ideologically to the WWII baddies you love to compare everybody else. Fuck you idiots even push for Völkisch equality unironically.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%B6lkisch_equality

While the commie scum all over the world was happily murdering gays you idiots were applauding them.

[jeff37923]

You did notice that Victor/Victoria was about female impersonators performing tame unsexualized choreographed dance numbers in front of adults and thus is acceptable while Drag shows which we find unacceptable have been overtly sexual and performed in front of kids?

Once again:

I feel like I've been saying the same thing for a while, and it isn't complicated.

• Showing X-rated or R-rated sexual material to children - like the Caba Baba Rave - is wrong, should be banned and punished, regardless of drag or not.
• PG material like "Victor/Victoria" or the "Kinky Boots" musical should stay PG.
• The standards of what is too sexualized should be the same for LGBT and straight for all ages. Substituting a born-female performer shouldn't make a banned drag show permissible.

jeff37923, you suggest that people here only want to ban overtly sexual drag -- not PG-rated drag like "Victor/Victoria". But this is contradicted by other posters here. SHARK's position is "Fucking ban all Drag Shows. Period." GeekyBugle suggests banning all drag being performed in front of minors.

Banning ALL drag from being performed infront of minors isn't an attack on no one but those who want to use it as the camel's nose to groom children. (...) Well, "innocent" Drag performed infront of minors is just the camel's nose, it's the start of the next Slippery Slope

"Victor/Victoria" is PG-rated drag for minors. So it is exactly what is referred to in the Slippery Slope which should be banned.

I love how you quote my post but deliberately ignore the distinction I made in that same post between female impersonators and drag queens.

[jhkim]

jeff37923, you suggest that people here only want to ban overtly sexual drag -- not PG-rated drag like "Victor/Victoria". But this is contradicted by other posters here. SHARK's position is "Fucking ban all Drag Shows. Period." GeekyBugle suggests banning all drag being performed in front of minors.
...
"Victor/Victoria" is PG-rated drag for minors. So it is exactly what is referred to in the Slippery Slope which should be banned.

I love how you quote my post but deliberately ignore the distinction I made in that same post between female impersonators and drag queens.

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":



These are professional entertainers in elaborate opposite-sex costumes. Your distinction earlier was:

In this context, cross dressing is when a person dresses and adopts the typical mannerisms of the opposite sex. Usually to "pass" as a member of the opposite sex. Either an actor plays a role of the opposite sex, or a character disguises themselves as a member of the opposite sex as a part of a story. This is your Mulans, Mrs. Doubtfires, and Bosom Buddies, for some examples.

Drag is the exaggeration of sexual dress and mannerisms, usually as part of a stage performance where the aim of the performance is to push the boundaries of acceptable behavior.

This is not like Mulan, Mrs. Doubtfire, or Bosom Buddies. The movie is set in a stage theater where there are stage performances by female impersonators in elaborate costumes. From the movie:

Robert Preston: Perfect. That's just low enough to be a touch masculine. Now remember, when you're dancing, make it broader, with tons of shoulder. Remember, you're a drag queen.

EDITED TO ADD: Skimming the 1982 movie again, the actual drag performers are more perfunctory in the background than I remembered - so it isn't a good example. It is about a drag theater, and Julie Andrews is pretending to be a drag queen, but her numbers are made palatable since she isn't actually a drag queen. So it's conceptually more difficult. There was a 1995 stage musical of it - maybe I'm remembering more actual drag from the stage version.

I still think Kinky Boots and the musical are good examples and involve genuine drag. (Thanks to GeekyBugle for the video from the musical, for those who aren't familiar.)

The general point is still - if there is a new performance that isn't one of these specific cases, what are the rules to distinguish? Should the Kinky Boots musical be banned?

[DocJones]

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":

Did you notice that, in the movie, there were no children in the audience?

[jeff37923]

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":

Did you notice that, in the movie, there were no children in the audience?

Oh, now that is unfair! You know how jhkim likes to ignore inconvenient truths that blow holes in his arguments....

[jhkim]

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":

Did you notice that, in the movie, there were no children in the audience?

But it's still a PG-rated movie, so the movie showing that number is intended for older children.

Still, there are enough complications with Victor/Victoria that Kinky Boots is a better example of a PG film about drag (see my edited to add in the post above).

[DocJones]

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":

Did you notice that, in the movie, there were no children in the audience?

Oh, now that is unfair! You know how jhkim likes to ignore inconvenient truths that blow holes in his arguments....

The American movie is based on a degenerate movie from the decadent days of the Weimar republic.

[jeff37923]

"We're here! We're queer! We're coming for your children!" chanted during Drag March in New York Pride Celebration

https://www.foxnews.com/us/nyc-drag-marchers-chant-were-coming-your-children-during-pride-event


Harmless joke or telegraphing a punch?

[DocJones]

"Victor/Victoria" is set in a theater of professional entertainers who dress in elaborate costumes to perform as members of the opposite sex. Here's Robert Preston from "Victor/Victoria":

Did you notice that, in the movie, there were no children in the audience?

But it's still a PG-rated movie, so the movie showing that number is intended for older children.

Children were not taken to seedy nightclubs to watch degenerates on stage even in in the movies. 
Parents knew better.  Obviously the rating was inappropriate.