Imprison anyone who refuses the vax!

[oggsmash]

  I do not think a time for violence (and IMO violence is acting to kill people, not street brawling, not shouting and not shoving) has arrived yet.   I do think there is a population that is getting very irritated.   I know, for fact, many of that population are doing all they can right now to be strong, fit, independent, well supplied.   Do I think there will be open revolution?  Doubtful.   Do I forsee massive internal collapse?  Much more possible.  I feel the strong men are preparing for the next phase more so than planning to die to convince insane people to not cut their kids sex organs off.  The nation as a whole is a loss regarding what it was built to be and how it was formed.  There is NO AMOUNT of political activism (which the loud mouth here screeches about...forgetting all his "activism" he engages in is institutionally endorsed) that is going to change the strange off the cliff trajectory of the United States.  Too much rot, demographic change (rapid fire forced demographic change), and mass levels of propaganda to accept "change".   But I think its a house built on sand.  It will rot and fall apart.   Already the military is losing its combat arms demographic in huge numbers.   I am not interested in storming the streets...its folly.  I am however raising Jane and John Conner.

My real problem with this, "We are not there yet..." is it implies a wholly passive attitude. A resolve to do nothing but wait until things get really really really bad. By that time it will be too late. I think the time has already come and gone to fix the USA with traditional non-violent means. We failed to honor our civic obligations when all we would have had to do is get involved in a peaceful way. I also think that the time to rise up and rebel against a tyrannical system has passed. There has been a revolution, and the revolution won -- they control every aspect of power. The only way to defeat a victorious revolution is to mount a counter-revolution. That will not happen. Counter-revolutions run just like revolutions... they require a committed leadership that works subversively to bring down the corrupt system and willing to break some eggs to make an omelette, as well as the cadres quietly moving among the people executing the subversion. We don't have either of those.

We are alone. No one will save us. We have to make decisions on our own about how to deal with these situations as best we can. IMHO

Good luck to everyone!

   There has been NO TIME for a violent revolution to rise.  Soldiers will do as they are told.  The USA military has been for a long time EXTREMELY powerful and would quickly crush any concentrations of revolution.  At no time was there a "civic" answer either, those options were long removed by propaganda arms that gave you decisions between pepsi and coke and that was it.  For there to be a mass action, especially from Right wing people, they need the "Morale Green light" and it will have to be really really bad for them to act because all other Morale options will have been exhausted.   In the meantime as we approach that position...the military is MUCH weaker than it has been in the past.  Police officers are leaving their posts and police departments are horribly understaffed.   The institutions that keep these insane tyrants in power are SEVERELY weakened and many who manned their ranks are now out with other jobs and new points of view about what is going on.   As for being alone...network with IRL people.  See just how alone you really are, because I can assure you in most places in the country you are not alone.   If you find its just you and your family...well exercise, lift weights, learn to fight, learn to shoot, store some food.  This is in reality about all you can do until it gets really bad, because it will have to get really bad for that morale green light to pop on for most people you would want on your side.   Raise Jane and John Conner and reach around where you live and see just how alone you really are.  I again assure you...you are not alone nor unique in your concerns.    Start a club that meets weekly.   If you are not even doing that....IMO you are the one asking for someone to come save you.

No need to worry about me. I have already decided what to do and did it.

The wheels on the bus have been wobbling for a very long time. Now it is too late to fix them. Things are going to start falling apart and there is no one who will put the pieces back together. If there was a time to fix things, that time is passed.

Again, we are all alone. You go join a club. I have already found my solution, and it is working out very well for me. I am not waiting for patriots, or leaders, or my fellow Americans to help me or anyone else. None of that is going to happen.

I have decided what to do. And I did it. I don't need to talk to anyone to come up with excuses as to why I am not going to act to preserve myself and my family.

Take care and best of luck!

   You speak about what will not happen after making zero effort to make something happen.  You speak from a position of time passed (there was never any realistic way to reverse course of the insane trajectory the nation has been on, its been hijacked since before the 90's).   You talk as if Brad and I are not going to preserve anything....or as if we are making excuses...when it seems you have taken pretty much the exact same approach (preparing yourself and those around you) that we have and not getting heavily involved in exterior political activism.   If your solution is so wonderful, perhaps share it and drop the snark attitude.   

[oggsmash]

  I also want to clarify...if I have the tone wrong here...  I am not sure I understand the talk of passivity with regard to the nation at large when we said we did all we could inside the spheres we do control (household/family) and chose to not waste but so much gas on exterior things we can not control.   I am not so certain as to how that is passive and how you squirrel are doing anything at all different?  If you have some ideas to share (that I most certainly could have not thought of already) I would love to hear them as I think there is a productive nature to taking a look at things and seeing what other people have decided to take as a course. 

[squirewaldo]

If your solution is so wonderful, perhaps share it and drop the snark attitude.

Why? Would anyone listen to me? Would it help me or anyone else to describe what I have done in the face of a hopeless situation in the USA? No. Not in my opinion. Furthermore, the choices I made may not work for other people. So why share anything? So that people can call me names and tell me how bad or stupid I am?

All I am saying is it is time to be realistic. It sounds to me like you are extremely realistic in regards to the problems facing the USA. At least I am in total agreement with what you have been saying, so if you are not realistic about the problems, then neither am I... in fact part of me really hopes I am wrong.

So we all have choices and decisions to make. What do you do if everything that you described is true? I would never presume to tell other people what to do. I just think it is time be realistic. Our options are few and none of them necessarily appealing or easy.

What do you think people living in the USA should do right now with the circumstances they find themselves and the resources they have availalbe to them?

[squirewaldo]

  I also want to clarify...if I have the tone wrong here...  I am not sure I understand the talk of passivity with regard to the nation at large when we said we did all we could inside the spheres we do control (household/family) and chose to not waste but so much gas on exterior things we can not control.   I am not so certain as to how that is passive and how you squirrel are doing anything at all different?  If you have some ideas to share (that I most certainly could have not thought of already) I would love to hear them as I think there is a productive nature to taking a look at things and seeing what other people have decided to take as a course.

I don't quite understand why you think I am talking about you? I wasn't. I was agreeing with you, and adding my .02. sorry if I offended.

[oggsmash]

  I also want to clarify...if I have the tone wrong here...  I am not sure I understand the talk of passivity with regard to the nation at large when we said we did all we could inside the spheres we do control (household/family) and chose to not waste but so much gas on exterior things we can not control.   I am not so certain as to how that is passive and how you squirrel are doing anything at all different?  If you have some ideas to share (that I most certainly could have not thought of already) I would love to hear them as I think there is a productive nature to taking a look at things and seeing what other people have decided to take as a course.

I don't quite understand why you think I am talking about you? I wasn't. I was agreeing with you, and adding my .02. sorry if I offended.

  Not offended, the nature of quote response and me reading everything like a monotone robot in my head confused me as to what you said when it did seem we are in agreement on several points.    Tone and such are not always easy for me in text so it did come off as a bit confusing with some of the response you had when combined with the total.   Apologies for my confusion.  I can also understand you may have said it with a touch of emotion, and I certainly read some of it with a touch of emotion as watching what is going on with the USA is like watching a beloved relative die a slow agonizing death to me (and I suspect to others) where I am largely helpless to do anything about it.

[oggsmash]

If your solution is so wonderful, perhaps share it and drop the snark attitude.

Why? Would anyone listen to me? Would it help me or anyone else to describe what I have done in the face of a hopeless situation in the USA? No. Not in my opinion. Furthermore, the choices I made may not work for other people. So why share anything? So that people can call me names and tell me how bad or stupid I am?

All I am saying is it is time to be realistic. It sounds to me like you are extremely realistic in regards to the problems facing the USA. At least I am in total agreement with what you have been saying, so if you are not realistic about the problems, then neither am I... in fact part of me really hopes I am wrong.

So we all have choices and decisions to make. What do you do if everything that you described is true? I would never presume to tell other people what to do. I just think it is time be realistic. Our options are few and none of them necessarily appealing or easy.

What do you think people living in the USA should do right now with the circumstances they find themselves and the resources they have availalbe to them?

  Sorry about the other, I think we are back to same page.  My suggestions?   Get completely free of debt.  Get in the best shape you can.  Get as strong as you can.  Learn to fight.  Learn to shoot. Store some food.   I think those are all attainable by everyone regardless of resources.   If you have family that will go along with it (sadly I do not...this is a hard no from the spouse)..move to an extremely rural area where if you had to you could at least raise chickens and plant a large garden that will be self sustaining.  Network heavily among people with shared interest (I have a cheat method here as I teach BJJ and have a large number of men with similar points of view I am in contact with often) whether it be at some club, church, etc. 

   I think those things are about the limits.   The being in shape to me is not necessarily to be able to fight off 3 people solo...its to insulate yourself from having to use a bunch of health care services (I think those sorts of services are going straight into the shitter the next 20 years big time) and IME stronger fitter people do not get sick or die as easily.

[squirewaldo]

  I also want to clarify...if I have the tone wrong here...  I am not sure I understand the talk of passivity with regard to the nation at large when we said we did all we could inside the spheres we do control (household/family) and chose to not waste but so much gas on exterior things we can not control.   I am not so certain as to how that is passive and how you squirrel are doing anything at all different?  If you have some ideas to share (that I most certainly could have not thought of already) I would love to hear them as I think there is a productive nature to taking a look at things and seeing what other people have decided to take as a course.

I don't quite understand why you think I am talking about you? I wasn't. I was agreeing with you, and adding my .02. sorry if I offended.

  Not offended, the nature of quote response and me reading everything like a monotone robot in my head confused me as to what you said when it did seem we are in agreement on several points.    Tone and such are not always easy for me in text so it did come off as a bit confusing with some of the response you had when combined with the total.   Apologies for my confusion.  I can also understand you may have said it with a touch of emotion, and I certainly read some of it with a touch of emotion as watching what is going on with the USA is like watching a beloved relative die a slow agonizing death to me (and I suspect to others) where I am largely helpless to do anything about it.

When I find myself in disagreement with someone I first try to understand where we agree, and then try to understand where we disagree.

It would seem to me that we are in agreement about what is wrong with the USA. I suspect that our issue of disagreement has to do with my proposition, perhaps not stated clearly, that: The USA cannot be fixed, or at least will not be fixed by me or anyone else.

And with that proposition comes a very different attitude and a very different set of possible solutions. But even in this, I may be wrong. Perhaps you agree with me on this last point as well? In which case I am confused about what we disagree about.

[oggsmash]

  I also want to clarify...if I have the tone wrong here...  I am not sure I understand the talk of passivity with regard to the nation at large when we said we did all we could inside the spheres we do control (household/family) and chose to not waste but so much gas on exterior things we can not control.   I am not so certain as to how that is passive and how you squirrel are doing anything at all different?  If you have some ideas to share (that I most certainly could have not thought of already) I would love to hear them as I think there is a productive nature to taking a look at things and seeing what other people have decided to take as a course.

I don't quite understand why you think I am talking about you? I wasn't. I was agreeing with you, and adding my .02. sorry if I offended.

  Not offended, the nature of quote response and me reading everything like a monotone robot in my head confused me as to what you said when it did seem we are in agreement on several points.    Tone and such are not always easy for me in text so it did come off as a bit confusing with some of the response you had when combined with the total.   Apologies for my confusion.  I can also understand you may have said it with a touch of emotion, and I certainly read some of it with a touch of emotion as watching what is going on with the USA is like watching a beloved relative die a slow agonizing death to me (and I suspect to others) where I am largely helpless to do anything about it.

When I find myself in disagreement with someone I first try to understand where we agree, and then try to understand where we disagree.

It would seem to me that we are in agreement about what is wrong with the USA. I suspect that our issue of disagreement has to do with my proposition, perhaps not stated clearly, that: The USA cannot be fixed, or at least will not be fixed by me or anyone else.

And with that proposition comes a very different attitude and a very different set of possible solutions. But even in this, I may be wrong. Perhaps you agree with me on this last point as well? In which case I am confused about what we disagree about.

  I never said we disagree about anything.  I do not know where I presented anything that says the USA can be fixed.   I only presented the reality people are not going to do anything on a large scale until it is really really bad.   I do not think there will some "saving" of the USA after that.  I think something new is born...what I do not know;  but I have a feeling Trans story hour is not going to be in any way part of the new culture/nation/situation arising from collapse.

[squirewaldo]

When I find myself in disagreement with someone I first try to understand where we agree, and then try to understand where we disagree.

It would seem to me that we are in agreement about what is wrong with the USA. I suspect that our issue of disagreement has to do with my proposition, perhaps not stated clearly, that: The USA cannot be fixed, or at least will not be fixed by me or anyone else.

And with that proposition comes a very different attitude and a very different set of possible solutions. But even in this, I may be wrong. Perhaps you agree with me on this last point as well? In which case I am confused about what we disagree about.
[/quote]

  I never said we disagree about anything.  I do not know where I presented anything that says the USA can be fixed.   I only presented the reality people are not going to do anything on a large scale until it is really really bad.   I do not think there will some "saving" of the USA after that.  I think something new is born...what I do not know;  but I have a feeling Trans story hour is not going to be in any way part of the new culture/nation/situation arising from collapse.
[/quote]

I think we do disagree on a few things, but that may simply be because I am in a different situation than you.

If my wife resisted such simple and reasonable actions as you propose... she would not be my wife for long. Of course I am divorced (the Best thing I ever did for myself), and I have refused to get involved with women on anything other than the most shallow basis. I am very happy about this! I have never been so financially stable, I get along great with my kids, my health is better than when I lived with the witch, and all around I am happy and feel secure.

Also, I am much more pessimistic about what will happen when there is a collapse. I like to think I am a student of history, and I cannot think of a single instance of cultural and societal collapse where things got better in the short term. I look at the USA as a sinking ship. When you are on a sinking ship the best thing to do is to get off, and get as far away as possible so that the thing does not take you down with it in the vortex it creates as it sinks.

I think this metaphor matches my thought process: I am living in a big house or dormitory with a bunch of other people. I don't really like them that much, but I don't really hate them either. They are just there. So every Saturday night we sit around and argue and complain about what to do. If I participated in that discussion for too long, I would end up sitting in that house never going anywhere. So I tell people what I want to do, they always ignore me, and then I go out on my own. Eventually, I move out of the house because I just cannot stand the constant negativity combined with a total lack of motivation to do anything.

Take care and best of luck. We are all going to need good luck. As my father used to say, "It is better to be lucky than smart!"

[oggsmash]

  Well to her living deep in the woods seems to be like someone dropping her into hell.  It's the one suggestion she will not take and one that Honestly her good list of qualities greatly outweighs that one strike.   I do also mention to her, if apocalypse hits and as I die dragging her and the kids around because we have too many people around us...I am going to make sure she hears it with my dying breath.

  In her defense...my idea of rural is probably extreme. 

[Grognard GM]

In her defense...my idea of rural is probably extreme.

I hear ya, 2 block walk to a Starbucks. Not every woman wants that kind of extreme isolation.

[oggsmash]

  If only....we are in an area she already considers rural, and when we go where I consider it rural...  In any event it is what it is.   I guess though the wobbly wheels may fall off sooner than I expected when I read about several major airlines doing all they can to get a fast action swap of the demographics of their pilots.    That may not end well. 

[GeekyBugle]

Don't worry boys and girls, the ChiCom are hard at work trying to bring the bio-apocalypse

[jhkim]

Don't worry boys and girls, the ChiCom are hard at work trying to bring the bio-apocalypse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUs82E_aEOQ&t=638s

Here's the Daily Mail article being quoted:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12969105/chinese-scientists-lab-coronavirus-kill-rate-mice.html

I immediately note the bullshit clickbait headline that they "created" a virus, when the text makes clear that they are testing a virus that already exists in the pangolin population seven years ago. I don't know how to judge the research being done here currently, but the article does things like quoting a chemist on Twitter about what he thinks about the viral research. I'd be interested to see a reasoned analysis of the work.

I know that as a particle physicist, I would often get people angry and afraid, screaming about how dangerous it was to have nuclear testing going on in their own backyard -- like why didn't we just give up with bombing.

Studying radiation is not the same as creating a nuclear weapon, and studying naturally-occurring viruses is not the same as engineering bioweapons.

[Ratman_tf]

Don't worry boys and girls, the ChiCom are hard at work trying to bring the bio-apocalypse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AUs82E_aEOQ&t=638s

Here's the Daily Mail article being quoted:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-12969105/chinese-scientists-lab-coronavirus-kill-rate-mice.html

I immediately note the bullshit clickbait headline that they "created" a virus, when the text makes clear that they are testing a virus that already exists in the pangolin population seven years ago. I don't know how to judge the research being done here currently, but the article does things like quoting a chemist on Twitter about what he thinks about the viral research. I'd be interested to see a reasoned analysis of the work.

I know that as a particle physicist, I would often get people angry and afraid, screaming about how dangerous it was to have nuclear testing going on in their own backyard -- like why didn't we just give up with bombing.

Studying radiation is not the same as creating a nuclear weapon, and studying naturally-occurring viruses is not the same as engineering bioweapons.

After being ground zero of a novel coronavirus, and having the spectre of unanswered questions about gain of function research, I'd think China would have the goddamn sense to lay off any virus research for a good long while.